Tag: influencer

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In a world beset by health and safety concerns, video surveillance has gained new value. For example, automated check-ins can reduce interpersonal contact—and provide a friendly reminder to mask up.

But video is still a challenge to manage. Find out how you can simplify matters in this conversation between technology power couple Sarah-Jayne and Dean Gratton, and experts from Digital Barriers, a leader in AI-powered and IoT-connected safety and security systems.

You will hear:

• How video-as-a-service can cut costs even as you add capabilities
• What the latest intelligent cameras can do for your store
• How you can use cellular networks to eliminate the need for new infrastructure

Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, SoundCloud, and iHeartRadio, the Retail Tech Chat is a limited-run podcast focused on recovery of the retail and hospitality sector. Subscribe now so you don’t miss an episode!

Transcript

Dean Gratton: Welcome to the Retail Tech Chat, sponsored by Intel. I’m Dean Gratton.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: And I’m Sarah-Jayne Gratton.

Dean Gratton: Together we explore the world of technology and the ways it is reshaping our lives.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: And in this podcast series we want to take you on a journey into retail innovation with Intel and its partners.

Dean Gratton: So today we are talking to Zak Doffman and Graham Herries from Digital Barriers, a leader in AI-powered and IOT-connected safety and security systems.

So, Graham, you’re new to the team. What do you do?

Graham Herries: Yeah. So I’m Graham Herries. I’m SVP Engineering for Digital Barriers, which is actually a new role created, and had a really interesting interview experience actually.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Okay. Zak, great to have you here. So tell us, what does Digital Barriers do, and what’s your role there?

Zak Doffman: Okay. So Digital Barriers specializes in edge intelligent video solutions, and what that means is that we specialize in getting video back from wherever it’s captured to wherever it’s needed in absolutely real time, over primarily wireless networks. We do lots of analysis on the edge as well, so the video that we return is the video that’s actually required.

We started our life in the military and intelligence space doing kind of spooky, high-end stuff for very hard-to-reach customers, and then about two years ago we adapted, kind of pivoted the business so that we could take the same technologies into the broader commercial and critical infrastructure worlds, which are clearly much bigger but have a different set of requirements, and it’s kind of on that basis that the relationship with Intel is so important, as I’m sure we’ll come to later.

Zak Doffman: I’m one of the founders of the business and the Chief Executive.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Fantastic stuff.

Dean Gratton: You talked about video streaming. What was your experience like when you first started with the military compared to today where you’ve got 5G technology? I’m not sure if all areas across the U.K. have got 5G. Can you offer any comparison between your experience then and now?

Zak Doffman: It’s a great question. So the core technology that we use, our technology that we use to do very low bandwidth, zero latency video streaming is proprietary and it was invented 15, 20 years ago. So it’s kind of long in the tooth, as they say. It was able to stream live video over 2G, so way before any of the broadband wireless networks that we see today.

Every time there’s a new wireless technology, the question gets asked of us, “What would be the impact? 3G, 4G, now 5G, will that have a detrimental impact on the business?” What’s actually happened is every time there’s a new capability, it becomes more broadband, if you like, then the requirements and the desire for live video just becomes greater, and it kind of swamps the capability to provide that in a kind of ubiquitous fashion. So each time there has been a change in network protocols, we’ve actually seen a huge surge in our growth, and I think we’ll see the same thing with 5G.

Now everybody expects to be able to get live video from wherever they are and send it to wherever it needs to be, and that clearly is very difficult to do even over highly broadband networks, and we can make that happen.

Dean Gratton: That’s the thing with 5G. I think some time ago with 4G LTE or 4G Advanced, I think the ambition was to create true wireless broadband, but I don’t think we’re seeing that now. Now with 5G, I think we can actually see that now. Having said that, where we live at the moment, our backhaul is 4G. So we’re talking to you, we’re a 4G network, and that’s our broadband service.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: That’s right.

Zak Doffman: Five is just misunderstood, and I think there is an expectation that you could just sit there and watch as many live TV channels as you want in glorious 4K, over an unlimited 5G network, and it doesn’t work that way, as you know.

So 5G’s all about pushing huge quantities of data very quickly to where it’s needed and then kind of cutting the connection and moving onto something else. It isn’t actually designed for real-time live video to be streaming continuous. It’s not how the network works. You’re right, there’s an asymmetry as well, and often the update might be in LTE and the download might be in 5G as well. Even beyond that, when you talk about critical infrastructure, blue-light services, the military, they’re not going 5G anytime soon.

So I think what it’s doing is it’s creating an expectation that those capabilities will be met and those requirements will be met, but that can’t be delivered against. What we’ve got is a technology that is very happy on 5G but then will move down to LTE, to 4G, or to 3G as required, so that the quality of service that a customer actually gets in the real world is always good.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, fantastic.

Dean Gratton: That really does echo, “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” I did have a question maybe a few weeks ago where someone said, “Well, I’ve got a fixed infrastructure, which is wired. It’s working. Shall I upgrade it to a 5G service?” I just wondered, “Why would you do that?” Because if it’s working, why change it?

Zak Doffman: Again, you’ve hit on another problem as well, which is we’re in a hybrid world of fixed and mobile connections, wireless connections, and what customers want is, they don’t really care whether a connection is coming over wireless or fixed. They just want it to work and they want it to be the same.

So what we’re seeing, and what we have is the ability to run the same kind of analytics regardless of the bearer. So if I’m a customer and I’ve got 10,000 video streams, two-thirds of them might be fixed and a third on wireless, but I want the same dashboard, I want the same analytics. I want to be able to manage all those video streams in the same way. The fact that it’s a different technology streaming video from a vehicle or a body-worn camera than from a CCTV point in an open public space is irrelevant to the customer. They don’t care, they just want it to work.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. It’s what I always say. To use a sort of plumbing analogy, I say, as a consumer, we turn on our taps and we want water. We don’t want to know where it’s coming from; we just want consistency. Wherever it’s coming from, we just want the water.

Zak Doffman: Exactly right.

Dean Gratton: [crosstalk]

Zak Doffman: It’s really interesting. You asked about, going back, our experience of 2G to where we are today, and I can probably talk about this now because enough time has passed. But our heritage is in the military, and that’s where these technologies came from 10 years ago. The fact is that when the British military was going out into theater, it was using commercial cellular back in the kind of the 2G, early 3G days, just normal commercial cellular to stream live video back to where it was required. So at the time, other countries were having to put on these huge military networks to get the same video back and our guys were just using this commercial cellular stuff.

So we understand the need for it has to work. When you press that big red button, you need to make sure that video gets back to where it’s needed. It can’t fail. It needs to be secure, it needs to be resilient, and that, in essence, is the heritage of the company.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: How do you secure the privacy and security of the videos that are transmitted over public airways, for example?

Zak Doffman: So we do this in two ways. So the first thing is, so when people talk about secure transmission of video, often what they mean is they’ve just put a VPN around it. So, in essence, they’ve built a secure tunnel and they’ve piped the video through that. The problem with that is it adds quite a significant overhead to the amount of data that you’re pushing. So it could be a 20, 25 percent overhead. So if you were constrained for bandwidth before, you simply make the problem worse.

So what we do is, we actually… because we own the stream, we control the streaming technology, the codec, we’re able to build encryption into that codec. So there’s no overhead, kind of a 1 or 2 percent overhead only, in terms of making sure that it’s encrypted.

The second thing we do is we’re clearly end-to-end, so we’re encrypted at both sides. So although we’ll decrypt and decode when the video lands in its secure location, we can ensure that that video isn’t compromised. We can wipe endpoints. We can watermark video. We can do everything to ensure that that video is exactly what’s captured, and we can tell you when it was captured.

But the other point, of course, is privacy. So we’ve operated in incredibly hostile environments where there’s lots of sniffers out there trying to intercept videos, detect us on a network and sniff it out. Again, because we’re a proprietary technology, we don’t look like video. So the way these technologies work is, they understand how video comes across on a network, how it spikes, what its profile is, and they try and pull that video down, and then they can set about trying to decrypt it. We don’t look like video on those networks. So we look more like VOIP traffic. So we just pass by undetected.

So in combination, we do this for the U.S. military, for the federal agencies, from the Ministry of Defence over here in the U.K., and we’re trusted to provide highly secure, private, uncompromised video streaming in, as I say, very hostile environments.

Dean Gratton: So you mentioned network sniffers. So the actual data going over the network, no one can really identify the packets being transmitted.

Zak Doffman: You wouldn’t be able to distinguish it from other chatter on the network. It wouldn’t look like a video stream. So if I was out on a surveillance operation, I was using standard technology to stream video over a wireless network, it would be very obvious, you’d be able to see immediately. Video looks very specific on a network. It’s got a specific spiky profile. It’s how the codecs work. We don’t. We have a very flat profile.

So one of the reasons that we’re able to push video over such low networks is we, in essence, flatten the spikes. So we ensure that we never exceed the amount of bandwidth that’s available, we control it. That, as I say, keeps the profile different and low, so it doesn’t detect or doesn’t present in the same way. But it also means that as networks dynamically adjust, as the amount of bandwidth changes, as contention builds up and bandwidth reduces, we’re able to, in absolute real time, reduce the amount of data so that the customer, who’s sitting there trying to watch a particular scene or a particular event, doesn’t have that disrupted.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. So, guys, tell me, what is edge AI and why does it matter?

Zak Doffman: So what we do, our USP, is the combination of the ability to get live video back where it’s needed, when it’s needed, but also to analyze what’s taking place at the edge, a scene that the camera can see, if you like, and can draw conclusions, inferences, so it can analyze that. Because you only want certain amounts of video, and one way to reduce the amount of video that you’re streaming, and to ensure that the stuff that lands back on somebody’s screen is important, is to ensure that you’re analyzing it and you’re detecting certain events, or a car or person that you’re looking for has actually turned up.

So what edge AI means simply is that you’re running AI-based analytics on the edge, as opposed to trying to pipe all of that video back to the cloud and run all of your analytics in the cloud, which traditionally is how these things have worked.

What we’re seeing at the moment is almost like two camps. So we’re seeing increasing amount of AI capabilities within silicon AI devices. So they’re, in essence, pre-programmed to conduct certain levels of analysis. Or we’re seeing these huge cloud players that are able to run all kinds of different business and security analytics but on huge volumes of cloud, video data, but that means that you’ve pretty much got a fixed cable from the camera back to the cloud and you’re piping everything back.

What we do is what we call hybrid analytics. So we’re able to mix and match what we do at the edge and what we do at the center, and that means, for example, if you’ve got a more capable edge process, you can do more at the edge, and if you haven’t, then you push more data back to the cloud. So you make it very efficient for a customer.

What’s also important is that we can use the cloud to provide, as needed, backup, if you like, to what’s taking place at the edge. Great way to think about this is that what we try to do at the edge is kind of narrow down the bit of the haystack where the needle may be, but what we do in the cloud is find the needle. We do that by, in essence, sending certain events back to the cloud where we think there may be something that fits whatever’s being looked for, and then we run much more efficient and effective and powerful analytics in the cloud, where we have unlimited processing, to determine if that’s a false alert or that’s a real detection, and all that happens sub-second. So by the time the customer gets an alert, we’ve done all that. They don’t know that that’s what’s taken place, but that makes our analytics much more accurate.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Oh, yeah.

Dean Gratton: The classic example I’ve heard about edge is the fire alarm. If the sensor triggers maybe a smoke, a whatnot in a building, do you wait to go to the cloud to inform the people in the cloud that something’s going on here, or do you actually trigger instantly at the edge that there is a fire alarm, where you trigger off the signal to the fire department, for example, and sound the alarm in the building? That’s the classic use case of edge computing.

But you guys, you mentioned predictive analytics, which, for me, I think you take deep learning or machine learning, which are subsets to AI. So from an edge-AI point of view, what does AI actually mean? Is it about the predictive analytics? Is it about the data munching?

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Or is it the relationship between…

Zak Doffman: Graham, why don’t…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: …the edge and the cloud?

Zak Doffman: A good one for Graham to answer.

Graham Herries: Yeah. As you highlighted, deep learning neural networks are a subset of the kind of broad term AI, and we’ve been investing in deep neural networks, DNNs, for quite a few years now. Luckily I’ve got a very specialist team who’ve been doing this for 15, 20 years, having got multiple people with PhDs in video analytics.

One of the things we’re seeing increasingly is, due to the advancements in chipsets and frameworks and libraries, is the ability to do DNNs at the edge a lot more cost-effectively because, let’s face it, we’re trying to produce commercial products, traditionally moving more away from that very high-spec military equipment into something more commercially available, which has a much more aggressive price point.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. Talking about price point and moving away from the military, how do you think retail and hospitality applications for video surveillance have changed in the wake of the pandemic?

Zak Doffman: It’s a great question. So I think things were changing anyway. There’s a lot of talk about the virtualization of video storage and using the cloud as a back-end, rather than have complex, on-premise solutions. So I think everyone was heading in that direction.

So even before the pandemic you were starting to see much lighter-weight, cost-effective, easier-to-deploy video surveillance as service applications hitting the hospitality and the retail sectors. Now what the pandemic’s done is, it’s, in essence, completely changed, I guess, the relationship between those sectors and their customers, and the responsibilities that they have. As ever, technology doesn’t solve the problem, but it helps its customers address the problem and try and do so effectively.

So, for example, there’s some really obvious ones, aren’t there? So there are all kinds of rules and regulations in different countries around the world about how many people can enter a particular location and do they have to be wearing face coverings, and do they have to be a certain distance apart. There’s lots of premises that are still closed or have different opening hours, and that leads to a different level of security requirement.

In essence, what we’re able to do is put efficient technology in place. Graham talked about AI and the level of expertise within the team, and what we pride ourselves on is that we have a platform, which enables us to build new capabilities quickly. So a great example of that is what we’re doing at the moment, where addressing customer needs around the latest, I guess, impact to those sectors is mask detection and people counting.

So if you’re running a store or a hospitality facility and there’s only a certain number of people allowed in at a time and you need to make sure that those people know they’re supposed to be wearing face coverings, that’s quite an onus to put on your staff, to have to confront people every day of the week. What we’re able to do is use technology. So we can just let people know if their location is full and we can let them know, if they’re not wearing a mask or a face covering, that that’s the regulation and they should put one on. Not confrontational, it’s an advisory notice, which just says, “You’re required to cover your face to enter these premises.” In that way we’re able hopefully to take some of the sting and the confrontation out of it and make life easier for the people running those sectors.

As we move into the next year, I think we’re starting to see certain trends again that technology will reflect. We’re looking at things like contact-free identity assurance. I think we’re already seeing some of the technologies, and this is back to the facial recognition point, where we’re all used to going to E-passport gates and using our faces instead of handing over a piece of paper to a border officer and then we can go through one of those kiosks. I think we’ll see the same, and whether that’s a reception desk or entering a gym or a leisure center, turning up to an appointment where you’re expected, they know who you are but you could, just by looking at your face, they can recognize it’s you, and all done in a very secure, private environment: You’ve provided a photo and they’re just checking that it’s the person that they’re expecting to see.

I think some of those are going to stick. It’s clearly convenient; it’s easy. It can be done in a completely compliant way with all of the various regulations around the world. But the imperative to do stuff quickly now is people don’t particularly want to be typing into an iPad or signing a book or handing over pieces of paper. It feels like there’s a better way to do things these days.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: I guess, rather contentiously as well, with the 10:00 P.M. imposed closures of pubs, clubs and venues, I guess that the technology could be used to spot those people that aren’t necessarily toeing the line in terms of that.

Dean Gratton: And breaches.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah.

Zak Doffman: This is an interesting point, isn’t it? We’ve seen the backlash against facial recognition in a law-enforcing environment through the processes that have taken place in various countries around the world over the last six months or so. I think it’s the same. There’s clearly, with something like facial recognition, there’s obviously a balance to be struck, a place where the broad public consensus would be it’s appropriate and proportionate and it helps the security or the law enforcement agencies or the government get the job done.

I think the point you’re making about curfews and early closing of pubs and restaurants is the right one because it’s clear in the U.K. that the consensus isn’t right. You feel that what the public expect and what’s being done, there’s a disconnect, and that’s a difficult place for technology to exist…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: It is.

Zak Doffman: … because it obviously is going to be taken badly. We, as technologists, need to be conscious of that because you very easily fuel the backlash, which in many ways has got out of hand, and there’s some very sensible questions that have been raised, but technology is just there to do what it’s told, if you like. It itself isn’t at fault.

Dean Gratton: Zak, how do you overcome those public concerns with facial recognition? I understand we need it, but how do we overcome those concerns?

Zak Doffman: It’s difficult because there’s a vacuum, a kind of a regulatory vacuum in most countries at the moment, and where we are seeing regulation, it might be seeing an overstep of that. But if you look here, say in the U.K. and in the U.S., traditionally there hasn’t been any rules or regulations, any limitations, and what that’s allowed is the industry and its customers, in essence, to overstep because there’s no guidance.

So I think what we need is regulation. We need to say, look, there are some absolutely clear use cases for things like facial recognition in a security environment. The example I always give is counter-terrorism, which is where our facial recognition was born. It was designed originally to serve that marketplace. If you know that you’ve got a dangerous cell of individuals operating in a city location, here in London or New York or something like that, and your imperative is to find them before they’re able to do serious harm to the public, then if you’re able to use their facial recognition to try and spot them entering a railway station or an airport, then the broad public consensus would be that’s a sensible thing to do.

But, conversely, if you try to use the technology to identify shoplifters or to stop somebody, who’s maybe kicked out of a bar on a Saturday night for being rowdy, from getting back into the bar, you’ve got no public consensus. Most people think that’s an overstep.

So I think it falls to the regulators, the government, the lawmakers, to actually set some limits and say, “Look, we start with the obvious stuff, where the use cases are clearly not contentious, and then we have to decide where the line is, what we’re prepared to do.” I think as you go down to low-level crime, it shouldn’t be used wherever it can be used. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should, as they say.

So I think there always have to be limitations on powerful technologies, particularly where biometrics are concerned. But it would be, in my view, criminal trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater, as they say, and just say, “Okay, even at the very obvious use cases, we’re not going to do that either,” because I think that puts the public in harm’s way unnecessarily. I think actually it’s harder, but much more sensible, to put regulations in place.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: How far do you think we are away from seeing those regulations put in place?

Zak Doffman: I think it varies. Obviously we’ve seen in the U.S. a number of states and cities that…

Dean Gratton: Are we going to go to a police state Britain?

Zak Doffman: Well, no. My customers are police forces, and the conversations we have are completely sensible. The challenge they have is that there’s no clarity or guidance currently in terms of what they should or shouldn’t be doing. We saw that in the U.K. with law cases against… challenging the use of facial recognition, and it was clearly a vacuum, and it was unclear what the rules and regulations were.

But in the main, you’re talking about organizations that are charged with keeping us safe from harm and taking bad guys off the street, and they see technology as an aid to do that. If they’re guided, as they are with things like the use of force and other things, then they clearly need to follow those regulations. Where there are no regulations, clearly their imperative is to keep the public safe. So they’re going to do what they can.

But the conversations we have are incredibly sensible and I think there’s a frustration, which is easier for me to say than for them to say, in terms of that lack of clarity coming from upstairs. I do think we’ll see that because I think the genie is out of the bottle, if you like, with facial recognition, and I don’t think it’s going to get put back in.

I think there are huge oversteps in places like China, which is on kind of a roll; it has no limitations in terms of what it’s willing to do. We absolutely don’t want to go anywhere near that. I think we, in the West, need to decide what’s obvious what we want to do and then just, in essence, rule out the more trivial, noncompliant uses of the technology.

The thing I’d add to that is, I think… your question was around how you get the public’s acceptance. I think we do a lot of demonstrations and media events with facial recognition, and we’re always very keen to show members of the public how it works. I think when they see the safeguards that are built in and how accurate it is, they relax because it’s seen as a little bit of a bogeyman technology: People don’t see it, they just hear about it or read about it. I think if you show them, it takes some of the mystery away from it.

But the other thing that’s happening is, it’s clear that we’re using it every day. We’re using it to unlock our phones. We’re using it at airports, if and when we go to airports these days. I think you’ll see a lot more of that. Access to airport lounges, when you’re going into potentially VIP areas in hospitality locations, potentially check-ins. So I think you’ll see opt-in identity assurance just because it’s easy and convenient and normalized by the phone manufacturers and others, and I think that as well will take some of the mystery out and will generate a lot of public acceptance.

Dean Gratton: How accurate is facial recognition? For example, I use Windows Hello, for example, which tends to be quite accurate. But when I go out and about in public, I tend to wear a fedora or I’ve got a hat on, and I’ve got this fuzzy face, I’ve got this beard and whatnot. How accurate is the technology today to overcome those subtleties?

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. With a hat and a mask, for example?

Dean Gratton: And a facial mask, for that matter.

Zak Doffman: The craziest question I ever got asked was from an Intel operator in a Western country asked me whether we could protect people dressed up like clowns, and I said, “No, we can’t. If they’re dressed up like a clown, you wouldn’t notice them and neither would we.” So I think there’s a line, right? If you clearly disguise yourself, if you’ve got your hat pulled over your eyes, and maybe a bandana around your face, it’s going to be very hard, isn’t it?

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Zak Doffman: The normal rule of thumb with face rec is, the best technologies would recognize somebody if somebody who that person knows would recognize them. So if one of your friends passed you on the street and they were a bit disguised, you’d probably recognize them, if they were too disguised, you wouldn’t, and the technologies are broadly the same. But clearly there’s no limitation. It can recognize more than just people you know. So it can recognize an unlimited set of subjects.

Facial recognition is all about maths and data quality. Those are the two things to keep in mind: the quality of the images or the video against which you’re comparing people, and then the quality of the video that you’re capturing at the scene, which is based on lighting and environmentals and the positioning of the camera. If that’s all very good, you have a very good chance of your 99.99 percent recognition. The more you compromise that, if you have poor captured imagery, so you might have a surveillance photograph that’s very poor, or if you’re operating in a shadowy environment, in bad weather, in bad light, then you make it harder. So that’s the first consideration.

The second is about maths. So if I put tens of thousands of people on a watch list and put a camera in a very busy place and tens of thousands of people walk past, every person is being compared to tens of thousands of people. You’re into the hundreds of billions of calculations. So even a 0.001 percent error rate, that’s a lot of people who are actually going to be misidentified. So you factor that in to how you do it, and because we specialize in operating in a difficult environment, we’ve got all kinds of tools and tricks to make it much more accurate than competing technology. We’ll help our customers understand whether there are constraints in the quality of imagery or the quality of the environment to factor into it, and we’ll help segment watch lists so that they can help it be as accurate as possible.

It’s all about outcomes. Where we’ve worked with law enforcement agencies, they’re hugely positive about the impact that the technology’s had to help them pick very bad guys off the street. Our technology has tended only to be used for the really bad guys, serious criminals, dangerous individuals, terrorists, threats to national security, where…

Dean Gratton: [crosstalk] …is a pair of glasses and a Superman suit. No one can ever detect that.

Zak Doffman: Well, as they say, the fact that you’re walking around looking like that might be a cause to tap you on the shoulder anyway!

Dean Gratton: I’d be arrested.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Absolutely. Absolutely. Digital Barriers, you offer video surveillance as a service. Can you tell us a bit more about what that means?

Zak Doffman: So VSaaS is the biggest shakeup to the video surveillance and security industry probably ever, realistically, certainly since IP video became mainstream. What it is, it’s taking all of the complexity, all of that hardware, all of that cabling out of the equation, and it’s putting everything into a virtual cloud environment. It’s giving you complete flexibility of your endpoint.

So you could take a camera, in essence, configure it through the cloud, that’s then set up on your cloud back-end, but, in essence, you’re renting it as your service. It means that you can push analytics out to those edge endpoints, whether they’re CCTV cameras or body-worn cameras or vehicles, and manage the whole thing virtually as a service, cost-effectively. Because the real impediment to these huge, large video schemes in the past has been the service, the cabling, the redundancy and the power management. All of that, if you like, is taken out of the equation.

So right now VSaaS is still tiny compared to the whole market. We’ve seen in the home market, with the likes of Amazon and Google and others getting into the game in terms of providing the cameras that many of us use at home now, which are clearly linked to a cloud back-end, and we’re starting to see that make it into the commercial environment, and that’s what we’re providing.

So we work with partners like Vodafone to provide a kind of a hosted video surveillance solution, video security solution, and we think that that is the future of the industry. If you look at the analysis, the VSaaS market is going to completely disrupt the video surveillance and security market over the next 10 years, and it will have the same impact that IP had on analog video 10, 15 years ago.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Everything’s heading towards cloud, isn’t it? Everything’s moving to the cloud.

Zak Doffman: I think for this, video’s hard to manage. Video’s a really badly behaved data type. It’s hard to move around. It’s hard to store. It’s hard to search. It’s hard to retrieve. So if you can use common tools and techniques and somebody else’s scalable back-end to manage it, and then if you can run really sophisticated analytics to limit what you stream, what you store, because what you don’t want is petabytes of unneeded video that you’re never going to watch, that just clog up somebody else’s cloud service and cost you a lot of money. So the whole thing is not just about taking a server and putting it in the cloud, it’s a re-architecture. It’s around what do people want.

What’s really interesting here is, and this has been driven by the California tech giants, traditionally, in video security, you captured everything, you stored everything that happened for weeks or months, or even years, and it was there just in case you needed it. What we’re seeing now is that requirement to get video to where it’s needed, when it’s needed, and then you store the important stuff. We can obviously do either, but actually that second shift really lends itself to a kind of a cloud VSaaS model.

Dean Gratton: Actually, you talked about video grade, because it is quite large and now it’s 4K and 8K. It’s going to be huge. Are there techniques to compress that video content down to manageable sizes across the cloud?

Graham Herries: Actually, I would say largely, for the surveillance video market, the thought of streaming 4K video to the cloud, or for processing and analysis, is just an almost unimaginable feat. It’s one of the reasons why our technology to deploy our analytics and encoder capability at the edge to just trigger on events, is one of the powerful features for dealing with certainly high-resolution video because actually…

Dean Gratton: Yeah, [unintelligible] quality.

Graham Herries: … the more resolution you have, the more ability to actually discern objects and understand the features, using the DNNs: Is this a person, and is this person wearing a red jumper or a green jumper? Is this a car? A blue car or a green car? What’s this number plate? Is it easily discernible? All these things preferably you want to do at the edge because otherwise your CPU cost and data charges, especially at 4K resolution, are going to be enormous.

Dean Gratton: It’s almost clichéd. We see on the news, for example, “Have you seen this person doing this untoward thing in this scenario?” and it’s very grainy, the video. So why not 4K and 8K streaming across? If there are better techniques to deliver that quality and to actually store that quality, surely that would be better for your service.

Zak Doffman: Yeah, but even with 5G, even with these unlimited cloud back-ends, simply storing all of that 4K, or even 8K video, is just not realistic, and not necessary. There’s an adage in surveillance that if you have too much data, you don’t have any data at all, you have too much information to manage.

So to Graham’s point, if you can provide some intelligent overlay, some analysis, either in real time or it’s done after the fact, around the metadata, around the events that you’re looking for, then what you actually have is what you need, not the 90 percent of video that you’ll never watch. I can’t remember the exact numbers, but the stats around the amount of video that’s stored but never watched is embarrassing when you think about just the volume of data and storage hardware that’s required to look after all of that.

So I think what we’re talking about is two things in tandem…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: What your AI is doing… Sorry to interrupt, but making sense of this for myself, and I do think it’s incredible, is actually, as you say, I love it, it’s getting closer to finding that needle in the haystack through the edge and then that’s what they’re going to get, they’re going to get the important stuff.

Zak Doffman: Let me paint a scenario, which I think will hopefully bring this alive. So let’s say, for example, I’m looking at the perimeter of an airport and all I want to know is if somebody is climbing over the fence, that’s what I care about. So I’ve got a camera and the camera will alert. It will alert its back-end if it thinks somebody may be climbing over the fence. But there’s bad weather, there’s wind, the trees are blowing around, there’s shadows, the lighting changes.

So the technology available on that camera at the edge is limited. So it takes what it thinks is an alert and it sends maybe a small piece of that alert, a frame, a piece in a frame, a snippet of video to the cloud, and it says, “I think I’ve seen something,” and the cloud then goes, “Yeah, you’re right. This is a person climbing under the fence or cutting through the fence.” Or it says, “Actually, it’s a shadow. We can analyze it on a different level.”

But in the event that that’s a real issue, then obviously you’ve now got that event is captured. It’s stored on the cloud. Somebody’s been alerted, they can then look at the live stream. That’s what people need. What they don’t need is the 23 hours and 45 minutes of video of that bit of that fence captured that day stored forever. They don’t need that, it’s irrelevant, no one’s ever going to go back to it.

Now what’s interesting and where there’s an exception to this, and, again, something that we do, is we manage the storage of video at the edge and in the cloud and we can sync between the two. Why that’s important is often you don’t have enough bandwidth to get all of the video back to the cloud. So what you can get is, we can get a compressed version of what we’ve seen, and that is enough. It’s situational, where it tells your customer, it tells your operator that there’s an issue they need to deal with, but it might be that that level of compressed video doesn’t have details of the face or the license plate or something else. So you’ve got a rolling storage available at the edge as well that you can go back and either pull a bit of a frame, a bit of video, all of the video if you want to, so you don’t lose any of that detail.

But seven or 30 days later, whatever you’ve chosen to do, if you haven’t seen anything that’s interesting enough to follow up, the chances are there’s nothing there. We can provide this level of flexibility to very large-scale video programs, which is a game changer for customers in terms of how effective it is, how flexible it is, and how much they can save from a cost perspective.

Dean Gratton: So you’re talking about motion-sensitive recording. So you’re not filming over 24 hours at least.

Zak Doffman: You can film it. No, I think the point is, I can put a video camera next to that fence and I can record it 24/7, and I can store that video on a rolling basis for, say, 30 days on the edge. I don’t move that video around. What I move around are events that happen, every time I see something that is an issue, something that the analytics has been told to look for, but if it’s ever needed, you’ve got that video for a period of time at the edge. It’s not clogging up any cloud. It’s not transmitted over any network. You only get it if you need it.

So the point is we can design a flexible scheme that meets a customer’s requirements, but you have to take into account cost, effectiveness, efficiency. It’s not just a case if you have servers in a control room and you’re just storing everything, you’re storing everything just in case, which has been the traditional view. This is an opportunity for a complete rethink about what people want and what is going to be most effective for them.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: So what capabilities they need. It’s fascinating stuff. I understand, so fascinating, that Intel actually came to you guys. So I really want to hear more about this.

Zak Doffman: Yeah, look, clearly we’ve always used Intel and technology through the life of DB, but two or three years ago Intel knocked on the door and said they’re running analysis, they’re looking for innovative AI startups or growing businesses in the U.K. and we were one of the top five they’d found, and they were really interested in working out if there was a partnership opportunity, an opportunity to work together, which was great to hear, and clearly we told our board that at the earliest opportunity because it sounded cool.

But actually, more importantly, Intel have followed up and have been true to their word. So they really do, time and attention, and it’s been amazingly helpful to us in terms of that relationship. I think Graham can talk about some of what’s actually taken place on the ground, but it has been great.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, fantastic. Graham, can you give us some examples of how Intel have helped you deliver your capabilities?

Graham Herries: Yeah. So it’s been really exciting actually because the technology that Intel have been delivering, especially around the kind of AI and their OpenVINO framework, has gone through almost exponential increase in capability and performance over the last couple of years, so much so that if I look back to where we were two or three years ago, everything was very custom, very bespoke, and less… we had to knife-and-fork a solution onto a hardware platform, be it Intel or be it the competition.

But the power of the tools now, it’s very much switched to an “Okay, let’s look at OpenVINO first” approach, because their hardware acceleration, as well as the flexibility of their library, has just… it’s just worlds away from where it was, and in some respects can’t thank them enough for doing that because, as Zak says, it’s enabled us to have frameworks in place so that we can retrain for new situational video analytics, methods, really quickly and start to analyze them.

One of our key areas of know-how has been around training and data because data, and data quality in particular, is really fundamental to AI. Without good data quality, then your result in a DNN solution will be quite poor. So we’ve invested a lot in that, and now being able to just leverage that with a really powerful framework has been great.

We’re really excited to see the new hardware coming out of Intel as well because as we’ve talked about AI at the edge and hybrid analytics, and we see such a great opportunity for even greater neural processing using the kind of neural computation approach that Intel have got at the edge, it could be an enormous game changer.

Dean Gratton: It’s so refreshing to hear, Graham, how companies like yourself understand the value in data and, more importantly, how to use it. Are you really maximizing your new currency?

Graham Herries: I think we maximize it very effectively, to be honest. It’s…

Dean Gratton: [crosstalk, laughter]

Graham Herries: We really maximize it at its hours.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: That’s great. That’s the best kind of currency.

Dean Gratton: I have some terrible bad news now. We’re coming to the end of our session. Would you like to share anything else with us now?

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Oh, yeah. Is there anything you’d like to talk about that we haven’t covered?

Zak Doffman: I think what’s interesting at the moment is we’ve all had a climactic six months, a crazy first seven months of this calendar year, and that has thrown up all kinds of challenges, whether it’s workforces working from home, limitations on people’s ability to travel, the changes to sector we talked about on this call about, hospitality and the retail sectors which have been impacted, along with travel, more than others.

I think what’s interesting now is that the imperatives we were seeing around the shift to better edge technology, VSaaS we’ve talked about, I think all of that is being accelerated. I think we’ve already seen levels of disruption over the last few months as technology has started to find its way into the frontline. I think we’ll see more.

We haven’t talked on this call about the use of our mobile technology in triage. So frontline medical workers can send video back to more senior doctors elsewhere over a secure network. We haven’t talked about body-worn cameras as we see lead workers in potentially hostile environments, as we different requirements placed on the police, as we see the implications on retail, where retail staff are being thrust into the frontline. I think wherever we look right now in the security world, we’re seeing disruption, and obviously that lends itself to businesses that can move quickly and be flexible.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. That’s some great examples.

Graham Herries: One of those rare occasions where you’re sat down talking to the boss and he’s saying, “Okay, we’ve got an office in the U.K. We’ve got an office in France. We do some AI. Lots of software management combined with some hardware. And we want to upscale the organization.” I’m literally just sat there going, “Okay. PhD in AI, tick. Worked in France for five years, tick. Speak French, tick. Been a software development manager in U.K. and France, tick.” It was just one of those amazing experiences where you’re just literally doing the virtual checkboxes as what turns out to be your boss is rolling down his list of what he’s looking for.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Well, guys, unless there’s anything else you want to touch upon, and we still have time if you do, if you want to go over anything else…

Graham Herries: Do you know? I’ve got one thing I’d like to talk about, which I think, just as technologists, it’s really easy to get consumed by the quality of the tech, and especially at the moment, it’s been really essential to empathize with the problem our customers are facing. We know it’s unprecedented times: no staff on site, no usual procurement, complex supply chains, risk of adoption, security, GDPR. But if we take a step back, actually, for the first time, certainly in my career, I’ve got exactly the same problem as my customers. Every customer’s slightly confused, they want help, and it’s just really important to empathize.

We’ve taken an approach of remotely holding our customers’ hands. It’s just not enough anymore just to have good tech. It’s great to have phenomenal USPs, but you’ve got to really have customer empathy, and it’s really important to how we deliver everything tech at the moment.

Dean Gratton: I think that you touched upon that, Graham, I think that’s right. I also get frustrated with technology. Not technology as such, I get frustrated with the people who are developing or creating the technology who often over-inflate the technology’s capabilities. A good example of that is artificial intelligence at the moment. I really get annoyed. I started developing Bluetooth products a long time ago when… in ’99 I was working with Bluetooth technology and it was over-hyped, over-inflated, it could do all this X, Y and Z, and it was nowhere near ready.

Dean Gratton: I was developing software against a specification that had not been ratified, zero point nine, and I still see the whole cycle today, whether it’s IOT, whether it’s industrial internet things or whether it’s artificial intelligence. Everything’s over-inflated, exaggerated beyond its capabilities. How do you control that?

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: That’s a question!

Graham Herries: That’s a really good question. Can you control it? I’m not convinced you can because, as you say, everybody wants to be an early adopter. I think what you have to do is ensure you can actually deploy something. So, again, I kind of come back to that spiel I just talked about, and it’s about how can a customer deploy a solution to actually add value to their business? Because, let’s face it, this is not about how we apply tech just for the sake of applying tech. This is about customer use cases and operational use cases, and we really need to understand what’s required and then deliver a solution and deliver the tech to support that, rather than deliver the tech for the sake of the tech.

Dean Gratton: Perfect.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. I know that Intel are really helping you guys do this. They’re helping you meet these expectations and deliver what you need. So it’s a great partnership.

Dean Gratton: I think what you just said was perfect. I think that helps solve the probably actually, the question I asked. That helps solve the problem. First let’s look at the solution and how we solve it, rather than, “Oh, we’ve got Bluetooth technology. Oh, we’ve got artificial intelligence. What can we do with that?” No, let’s first look at the problem, how do we solve it, and look what’s around us that could help us solve that problem.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Graham Herries: Indeed. Indeed. You’re right, Intel have been fantastic. One of the best partnerships I’ve ever seen in my career. Just so open-minded. You’re not having a sales pitch rammed down your throat. It’s more, “How can we enable you?” and that’s been fantastic for me, even just these last nine months since joining.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: That’s wonderful to hear. Well, we’re big fans of them, as you know. Slightly biased, but in a good way.

Dean Gratton: Thank you both.

Graham Herries: No, indeed, it’s been really great. Thank you.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: That’s it. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode.

Dean Gratton: If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, you can find out more about retail innovation at insight.tech.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: On behalf of Intel, this has been Sarah-Jayne.

Dean Gratton: And Dean Gratton. Until next time.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Until next time.

[podcast player]

Digital displays are showing up everywhere inside—and outside—retail establishments. From massive LED arrays that cover an entire building facade to shelf-edge displays, signage is giving merchants countless ways to communicate with consumers.

To learn the latest trends, listen in to this conversation between technology power couple Sarah-Jayne and Dean Gratton, and experts from ONELAN, a leader in digital visual communications that serves customers including Virgin, Tesco, and L’Oreal.

You will hear:

• How signage can create amazing brand experiences
• Ways retailers can generate additional revenue from in-store advertising
• How the latest technology keeps management and maintenance to a minimum

Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, SoundCloud, and iHeartRadio, the Retail Tech Chat is a limited-run podcast focused on recovery of the retail and hospitality sector. Subscribe now so you don’t miss an episode!

For more on this topic, read the article The Many Faces of Digital Signage.

 

Transcript

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Welcome to the Retail Tech Chat, sponsored by Intel. I’m Sarah-Jayne Gratton.

Dean Gratton: And I’m Dean Gratton.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: And together we’ll explore the world of technology and the ways it’s reshaping our lives.

Dean Gratton: So in this podcast series we are taking a new journey into retail innovation with Intel and its partners.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Today we’re talking to Simon Carp and Stephanie Scott from ONELAN. They are leaders in digital visual communications, and their customer base is out of this world. Customers include Virgin, Tesco, and L’Oreal.

Dean Gratton: So, Simon, obvious question: What does ONELAN do and, ultimately, what do you do?

Simon Carp: So ONELAN are a company which specializes in digital communications technologies, primarily in digital signage. ONELAN are part of the Uniguest group. ONELAN’s digital signage technologies are most commonly found across retail, also in higher education, corporate offices, public venues, and across the wider Uniguest group you’ll find our technologies deployed consistently for guest engagement applications, but more broadly across hospitality, sports stadiums, along with the other verticals that I mentioned ONELAN are particularly relevant in.

As for my role, so I head up our product management function. As part of that I have a small team which is responsible for making sure that we are really in touch with what our customers are trying to accomplish, what are they finding challenging in achieving their objectives and strategy, and trying to develop solutions that are really going to effectively make their life easier. That means we have very regular contact liaising with both customers, our sales team, who are spread worldwide, and translating that into definitions of new products, new services that we can build within our development team and then take to market.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: That’s great. I think, before we go on to you, Stephanie, Simon, I think in terms of what’s happening now in the world, the challenges that we’re having, it must have greatly affected this need for this interactive communication. Do you see that that’s evolved?

Dean Gratton: Actually, for me, I was interested when you said about education, and knowing that the kids and the university students have gone back, I’d like to know more about that, how that’s working for you guys in the education system.

Simon Carp: Yeah, absolutely. Across all settings, we’ve never had a greater need to communicate really clearly with our audience. So although we are living in challenging times, some of the benefits of digital signage are really coming to the fore. We are able to get messages out there to the masses. We can keep it up-to-date because we all know how frequently either government or local business or institution policies can change.

So we can get the content out there, we can get those messages out there far more effectively than some of the other traditional mediums that you might be reliant upon, like email and intranet sites. So it’s kind of relishing, in that sense. It’s got an awful lot to add to those types of institutions to make sure that they’re successfully getting the message across with regard to Covid-19 and social distancing and those types of policies.

At the moment we’re running a campaign, which is STAYSAFE, which is really highlighting some of the key features within our product set which we feel are relevant now more than ever.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, absolutely. So moving on, just introducing you, Stephanie.

Stephanie Scott: Hello.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Hello. Tell us a bit about what you do.

Stephanie Scott: So I work with Simon very closely in the product management team, and I’m Head of Pro AV Marketing. So we’re responsible for launching campaigns across the globe. These are a combination of tactical campaigns, anything that may help our end customers, as well as more strategic-level campaigns such as the ones Simon just mentioned, which is our recently launched STAYSAFE campaign.

I think just to add to what he just said about education, we’ve just found out actually one of our customers has deployed digital signs within a hall of residence to communicate with students, which I think is a really…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Wow.

Stephanie Scott: … fantastic use case.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: And so topical.

Stephanie Scott: Absolutely. I mean I…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: We’re thinking about it everywhere aren’t we, Stephanie?

Stephanie Scott: Yeah.

I’ve visited some universities recently and I can see the posters stuck on the doors, whereas digital signage within those halls can allow that message to be communicated really quickly, can help those students understand that they are being kept safe, and the latest protocols that are available. So it’s a win-win.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: It’s so important.

Stephanie Scott: It really is important.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: I’m just going to ask how you think the pandemic has changed digital signage.

Stephanie Scott: We’ve seen it used in different ways. Corporates are using it now to communicate the key messages of safety: wear a mask, wash your hands, social distancing. They’re using it to communicate with their employees in a way that previously they wouldn’t have done. They can also use it to communicate whether an area is full, with our occupancy management solutions: if it’s possible to go into a canteen, if they should or shouldn’t. Also in retail: Is the store full? Is the store empty? Is it safe for people to go in?

So the applications and the messaging are becoming a lot tighter, and we’re helping our customers not just by installing the signage but also giving them custom template layouts which they can immediately deploy, just trying to make their lives as easy as possible, as quickly as possible. As Simon alluded to, things are changing very quickly. We never know from one day to the next what the latest protocol might be, and that’s no one’s fault, that’s just the guidelines are continually evolving.

Dean Gratton: [crosstalk]

Stephanie Scott: So trying to help our customers keep pace with those changes, and ultimately keep people safe, is one of the priorities and that’s part of the premise behind the STAYSAFE campaign, all the tools that we have available to help deliver safety messages for staff, employees, visitors.

Dean Gratton: [crosstalk]

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: So many things, concerts, events. Is that the kind of thing that you would address in the marketplace?

Simon Carp: Yeah, definitely. It’s definitely part of our overall solution and that very large end of signage, and we’ve got examples across the Nordics, in Russia, in Taiwan. In India, you’ll find various roadside billboards being used by the government to communicate what’s going on in the local area and the government policies. So there’s various examples where we’re doing exactly that.

We’re driving a large… normally a range of LEDs. So rather than LCD TV panels, it tends to be a very large array of LEDs, which allows you to create something that’s a little bit non-standard, in terms of a display.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Signage comes in all shapes and sizes. Which end of the market do you address?

Simon Carp: We really address both ends. It comes to quite extremes. So in terms of size, we would use our technology to deliver content to a display that’s perhaps only 10 inches in size. That could be a small display in a corporate office by a meeting room. It could equally be a small display within a retail setting, directly next to the product that it’s promoting.

At the opposite end of the scale, very large displays. We’re delivering content to large video walls where you perhaps have multiple LCD screens tiled together to create a much larger display. At the very largest end of the scale, generally outdoor displays will be the larger that you will find. In those scenarios, using LED-based technologies, we’re delivering content to a display that might be meters, tens of meters, corner to corner, across the exterior of a building, advertising content to the local community. So size varies dramatically.

Shape is another interesting one and gives another interesting dimension. There’s a lot of technologies developing and becoming more accessible, cost-wise, with new LED technologies. That allows you to really create a display that is any shape you like. It’s almost limitless in that sense.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Wow.

Simon Carp: It can be three-dimensional, it can be curved. So there’s an awful lot you can do with it. We’ve got some great examples where some of our customers have taken ONELAN’s technology and those new display technologies. There’s one really nice instance where there’s a retail concession where they’ve wrapped the façade of the shop with LED and that allows them to use the whole space, all the way round from the floor to the ceiling. It has a cutout for the window so you can still see in and out of the store. And there’s a cutout for the door so can get in and out.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Fabulous. Fabulous.

Simon Carp: But they can use that entire architectural surface to present content and reinforce a brand and promotions for what’s going on in that particular store, and it’s really effective.

Dean Gratton: [crosstalk]

Simon Carp: It’s the kind of thing you can’t not see. You might not be interested, but you’re going to see it whether you like to or not.

Dean Gratton: What about interaction? From a customer experience point of view, to actually interact, are we there with virtual reality or augmented reality? Can you interact with these devices or these displays?

Simon Carp: Yeah. We’ve seen touch interaction become far more prevalent, so using the signage to be passive and play out video content to an audience. But you’ll find increasingly in retail, shopping malls, and universities, in businesses, those types of displays are also interactive. So you can use them to navigate a building, to get access to more detailed information about local events, what’s going on in the area, product catalogs, for example, promotions.

I would say there’s probably a degree of hesitance at the moment with touchscreen interfaces. I think that’s inevitable given the Covid-19 crisis that’s going on at the moment. But it will be interesting to see how that particular challenge evolves over the course of time.

Dean Gratton: What about augmented reality? I touched upon it just now, but surely these big, larger spaces, you talked about that shop experience where there are enormous displays.

Simon Carp: AR perhaps lends itself more to mobile devices because it allows you to use the camera to almost investigate an area and have content augmented on your display. There are, I guess, similar examples in digital signage. We’ve got a really nice project with a hotel with the Cartoon Network brand. In their restaurant they have displays which are installed to almost appear as windows, and behind those windows is the kitchen. Rather than seeing that, you actually see Cartoon Network characters creating dishes, washing the plates.

Dean Gratton: Wow.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Oh, that’s wonderful!

Simon Carp: It’s really quite something!

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: That’s amazing! How do you think signage is evolving from just an advertising channel into an integral part of the consumer experience? Talking about what you’ve just said, it is changing.

Simon Carp: It is, yeah. I think attitudes and, I think, technologies are maturing continually. Certainly the growth of e-commerce has forced retailers to reevaluate what they’re offering to the consumer in the physical space. I think it’s now definitely going beyond purely functional displays to show information. There’s still a space, and it’s still relevant to show promotions and promote marketing campaigns on digital signage, but there’s definitely an increase in interest in how we can take this technology to build and contribute to the overall experience a consumer has within the store.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, absolutely.

Simon Carp: It definitely can help build the ambience within a retail setting. It can sometimes seem frivolous, but there’s so many things you can do creatively with digital signage, in terms of what content can you show that’s really going to resonate with your target market.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Absolutely.

Simon Carp: It could be just a streamed video of what’s going on at a beautiful beach in California, but it sets that ambience for the retailer. It takes somebody to a different place where their mood is perhaps a little bit more receptive to the products that they’re trying to sell in that setting.

Stephanie Scott: It’s also valid to say that for some retailers they can use digital signage as an additional revenue stream.

Dean Gratton: [crosstalk]

Stephanie Scott: They can use their party advertising. We have a very large customer down in Australia who uses it for that. Shelf edge displays, and such like, whereby they use a third party, or a third party uses that as an advertising platform, and those spaces get booked up months and months ahead. So it’s an additional stream for the retailer as well, for brands.

Dean Gratton: Well, actually, funnily enough, I was going to touch upon that, Stephanie, about the in-store experience. Because with the pandemic, and of course with the High Street as well, it’s difficult that people have got to keep their distance and whatnot. It’s interesting to know how the digital signage is helping in-store experiences. Can you share that with us?

Stephanie Scott: I think pre-Covid, in-store, as Simon mentioned, retailers were using digital signage to create a different ambience. They could use it to engage. One of our clients, a High Street travel agency, they were using it to create a real… they would almost start… the holiday experience would begin the moment the potential customer walked into the store: digital signage throughout the store promoting the destination, providing that experience, and also promoting it to the children as well.

So a family would walk into the store and the experience, whether it was Disney or whatever, would begin the moment they walked into that store, and that was delivered by… a lot of that was delivered by digital signage. Clearly the fixtures and the fittings of the store had a part to play in that.

But the signage you can change obviously. You can keep it up-to-date. You can put live feeds on it. It brings that real-time experience into the store. The moment you start putting Disney information or Disney channels on stores, you’re just not going to get the kids out. It’s a great way to drive footfall and ensure that people stay within store for a little bit longer than they might do otherwise if their kids are entertained.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. It’s getting that content, isn’t it, that they respond to? It is getting the right content for the right audience.

Stephanie Scott: Yeah, absolutely. It is all about the content, absolutely right. It’s about the live content.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Well, yeah. If you get that content right, then the audience is there.

Stephanie Scott: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: So important now…

Stephanie Scott: And you can…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: … with everything that’s going on. You’re so right.

Stephanie Scott: Absolutely. From a branding perspective, if you’re a large retailer, you can deliver that content centrally; you can manage your brand centrally and just deliver activities out to each individual store. But you could also make it, or present it in a way that if you’re near a local airport, for instance, you can customize that content to allow it only to show offers pertinent to that local airport. So you can retain the overall global brand whilst having that level of localization and personalization for each store. So there’s lots of things you can use; it’s not just a one size fits all.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: No. I think what you’ve touched upon is real personalization and a bespoke solution for consumers, and also for obviously the distribution networks behind the signage. So it’s quite exciting that you’re able to do this in such challenging times. But I have to come to the key question here is, how does Intel factor into this, guys?

Simon Carp: The way I would describe it is Intel give us the horsepower. No matter what size the screen, and we’ve discussed the variety that we have in that sense, there’s always at least one of our media players, and within each of those media players is an Intel CPU. So they give us the tools, the horsepower, to make sure that when the content is playing, it looks flawless.

It’s also a key part in making sure that we’re offering something that’s reliable. We can’t have screens that are blank on any of our networks. The Intel technology ensures that we have the reliability that all of our customers expect of us. So 24/7, even beyond that 24/7/365, we can have these Intel-powered media players running reliably with no downtime. Sometimes that’s really important. In some cases it may be in really quite hazardous environments: offshore oil and gas where it’s really difficult to service a piece of equipment. You’ll find our technology is working in that kind of environment.

More of a typical retail setting: Airports are notoriously challenging, and they really reap the benefits of the reliability and 24/7/365 operation. It’s very impractical to get a service technician air-side within an airport should a screen, a player, need some kind of maintenance. So it’s something that our customers have found extremely powerful and useful within our system, utilizing the Intel technology. They can put those players behind the screens, way up high in the airport, and leave them there happily for many years, and they’re going to run reliably and securely and not need any maintenance in many cases.

Dean Gratton: Are your displays network-connected or internet-connected such that if a display is faulty or part of a display is faulty, it will transmit to you and say, “Hello. I’m having a problem here. Can you come out and fix me, please?”

Simon Carp: Yeah, absolutely. So the system is intelligent in that sense. So it’ll generate alerts for various conditions. If a player was to go offline, then we can detect that and we can send an alert to a service department to troubleshoot it.

We can often sense the status of the display as well. If a display panel goes off, we can generate alerts also. Even down to perhaps somebody who’s responsible for running the content and getting content to those screens. Perhaps they’ve uploaded an image that’s corrupted and fails to play. We handle that gracefully. We can pass straight past the image or the piece of content that’s problematic straight onto the next piece with no gap. But we can also generate an alarm to the relevant person to tell them that this particular player didn’t play that image, and quite often we can identify why that was the case as well.

Dean Gratton: So you haven’t quite reached then the self-healing facet of the technology where it can sort itself out?

Simon Carp: In some cases it can. So if the content is somewhat more complex, maybe there’s some HTML content that’s starting to slow the system down, we detect that and we can restart things. So there’s a lot of preventative care that the system will do intelligently. If it determines that something’s stopped responding as it should do, we can either move onto the next playlist item and resolve things that way. More often than not, we can manage those situations without the customer ever being aware. Should we need to, the system can reset itself, but, again, that’s very rarely required. In most cases, we can handle that kind of issue either by not allowing incompatible content to be uploaded in the first place, or handling it gracefully when it is attempted to play on there.

Dean Gratton: I remember working for a TV company, a very famous Dutch TV company, a long time ago, and they said, “Oh, it doesn’t matter. If there’s a software bug or something happens in a TV, most consumers will think, “Oh, it’s turned off. I’ll just start it back up again,” and I guess it’s kind of the same philosophy. If something happens with your display, as an independent unit, it will just say, “Oh, restart,” and, ordinarily, nobody notices.

Simon Carp: Well, in some cases that’s probably true, and there’s definitely some public venues where there’s times of day when something could go wrong and a player could restart and no one would be the wiser, and they’re corporate offices where there’s nobody around in the very early hours of the morning.

But we service customers where there is no downtime. Go back to the example of an airport. Dubai International Airport is one of our flagship customers where we run the retail network in the duty-free area. They don’t close. They don’t close overnight. They don’t close at Christmas. They don’t close at Ramadan. It is running constantly. Our players are there and they run 24/7/365. No downtime is accepted. It’s something we pride ourselves on. It’s a very resilient platform, and it’s very uncommon, touch wood, that any of these devices run into that type of issue to ever require power cycling to resolve or heal the problem.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Regarding camera-equipped displays, what kind of new business models do you think they enable?

Simon Carp: There’s definitely some very interesting opportunities with integration to cameras and other types of sensors for digital signage. We very recently brought a solution to market which utilizes just that.

We’re using cameras as a sensor to measure occupancy, and that’s particularly useful in helping manage social distancing. So we can integrate with a camera that allows us to determine the number of people within a specific area, and then using the tools already built into our content management system and our digital signage products, we can dynamically change the content according to the occupancy level. That might mean when the retail store or the restaurant or the canteen is well below its capacity limit, we can present a very welcoming message, a big green thumbs-up: “Welcome to the store. Come on in.” As the area becomes busier, perhaps even reaches the limit of capacity, we can instantly change that message to say, “I’m afraid this area is currently at maximum occupancy. Please wait a few moments for somebody to leave.”

Dean Gratton: You can take it one step further because with IoT, for example, another concept thrown around senselessly, where you can go into a parking area and find out specifically where there is available spaces and stuff, and have that displayed on your in-car display or your mobile phone.

Simon Carp: There’s definitely valid use cases there. We can integrate with various types of sensors. So if there is an API within a system that we can gain access to, then we can easily position an appropriate digital sign on each level of a carpark, notifying where there’s space, where there isn’t space.

We do similar things conceptually in other settings, for example, a library in a university. We have various customers where, as you enter the library, there is a screen that will tell you how many computers are free within each area of the library. So you don’t have to wander around hoping to happen upon an available space, you can see that information dynamically on screen. There’s benefits to the consumer, in that case a student or a member of staff, in being able to self-serve that request. But I think also for the institution there’s an advantage because there’s less reliance upon approaching members of staff to ask relatively trivial questions. People are able to self-service in that sense.

I think the same absolutely applies with the occupancy-sensing example as well. There are benefits on both sides. For the consumer, they do get that confidence and comfort that the area, the shop, is not overcrowded and…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Do you think businesses taking these on, in terms of maybe monitoring the number of people in restaurants, for example, in public spaces, in venues that at the moment are being very strictly governed and ruled by coronavirus pandemic lockdown rules… so how do you think it would play out there? Do you think it serves a role?

Simon Carp: Well, it is very effective for the retailer in that case, or the bar operator because there are certain environments where actually counting occupancy can be quite a challenge. If there are multiple entrances and exits to the same space, it’s quite a challenge, without suitable technology, to have staff counting people in and out to maintain a certain level of occupancy.

Using this technology, we can do it dynamically. We can integrate with these cameras that are really smart and are aware of how many people are within that space at any given time, regardless of how many entrances and exits there are. That can ensure that the retailer never finds … they are over capacity. So they can maintain compliance in that sense, but they can also do it in a way that’s cost-effective and efficient because certainly having members of staff spending their whole working day on a doorway counting people in and out is not the most efficient use of human resources, and they can be repurposed.

[crosstalk 00:29:27]

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: You touched upon a point there that’s so important. It’s about cost-efficiency these days because so many businesses are struggling, and having to have staff do jobs that your system can do very effectively, and cost-effectively, is, I’m sure, an absolute godsend to a lot of businesses in the hospitality region, and retail, for that matter. Can you give us an example of some stories where this has been the case?

Simon Carp: Definitely. I think one of the things that was interesting in the early stages of lockdown and social distancing becoming a daily reality was how quickly those policies can change. I recall an interview on the news where a retailer, a relatively small retailer, had had to outlay an investment to put signs around their store to say, “Please stay within a certain distance,” or not go any closer, only to find within a few weeks that the detail of that policy had changed. For them, it meant all of the investment that they’d put in creating these printed and physical artifacts was laid to waste.

Digital signage is completely effective in that sense, and we know many of our existing customers are using it to make sure that the content and the messaging is bang up-to-date, and you can do that instantly. It doesn’t matter how many times the government or the institution, the retailer, changes their policies with regards to social distancing, or any other factor. You can very quickly go into the platform, make the changes to the messaging, whether it’s three meters, two meters, one meter, and make those changes and roll them out nationwide, globally, within an instant.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: That’s amazing because in terms of the public, they need to be informed of changes quickly, and retailers need to be able to explain those changes, those political changes, those rules, those regulations, very, very quickly to consumers. So this is a medium where it really can be very, very fast.

Simon Carp: It demonstrates a degree of responsibility, I think, if, as you’re approaching a retail store, you’re faced with some content that’s reminding you about social distancing, you also know that everybody else who’s gone into that space has had the same reminder. So I think it’s a good, positive message for companies to present to their consumers, and shows that they really are taking this safety issue seriously.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yes.

Dean Gratton: You mentioned about occupancy before, and I just want to maybe touch upon another subject maybe slightly off course here. But you talked about occupancy, and I guess your technology would apply to office environments and whatnot. I suppose you can determine the level of occupancy in a building, etc., but then can you determine redundancy, whether an office space or part of an office space is being used, and for that business to say, “Look, we’re not using this space anymore. Let’s close it down and save money.”

Simon Carp: Absolutely. A lot of the technologies that we’ve already discussed in a retail setting are applicable in more of a corporate office setting and, in fact, many of the retail customers that we service not only use our technology in their front-of-house retail stores, but they also use our technologies within the corporate headquarters for internal communications. It’s a very effective platform. In the office, it’s an effective way of communicating policies to those employees.

Another product area that has been very successful for us and, again, this is powered by Intel, is the Reserva range of meeting room sites. Smaller…

Dean Gratton: [crosstalk]

Simon Carp: … displays beside meeting rooms that tell you exactly what the status of the room is. It’s always linked to your date and calendar system, so it will show you in real time exactly what’s happening, what’s scheduled to happen later in the day.

The next step for us beyond the occupancy management system we’ve already described, where we can trigger the content on the screen itself, the next step is to integrate that within our Reserva product where we have a nice analytics platform. At the moment, there’s a range of KPIs and metrics we can show within Reserva analytics. So we can show you which rooms are very popular, which rooms are not so popular, based on utilization. So if a room is available for 10 hours and it was only used for five hours, then we can then report that kind of data back.

The interesting advantage looking forward, when we bring sensors into that, is not only can we show a utilization, but we can also demonstrate occupancy. So let’s say one of your meeting rooms is utilized 80% of the time. That might feel like a really strong return on investment in that sense, but with these sensors, and very soon we’re looking at integrating with the analytics platform the capability to show how many people were in that room on average over that period, or what the maximum occupancy level was, and in that scenario your meeting room with 80% utilization perhaps never gets above 50% occupancy, in which case you can start to make some decisions about adjusting the design of the working environment, as simple as putting a divider down the middle of the room and getting two rooms for the price of one at half the size. So there’s lots more opportunity, I would say, there.

Dean Gratton: Yeah, absolutely. One of the feasibility projects I worked on was to look at the usability of this… the company had a 2,000-acre site but had this appendage to it. They were looking at the efficiency of this appendage, if you like, and whether or not the people on this site could be distributed elsewhere because it was costing them extra money. They were looking at the efficiencies of the room, how it was being used, etc. and ultimately whether it should be closed down and the employees should be distributed elsewhere.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: So this is a great application of this technology.

Dean Gratton: Yeah. It’s a great application. It’s…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: This would be perfect.

Dean Gratton: It boasts operational capital expenditure… reduces it, rather. I think the technology use is a perfect example.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah.

Dean Gratton: So with that in mind, is there anything else you’d like to discuss? Have you missed something that you wanted to pick up on?

Simon Carp: I guess one thing just to touch upon, when I introduced ONELAN at the start, I mentioned that ONELAN is part of the Uniguest group. We’ve been very successful in developing technologies across retail, universities, corporate communications. But across the broader Uniguest group, we’ve got technologies, engagement technologies that are very prevalent in a range of other verticals. Particularly in hospitality, in hotels, conferencing centers, we have a number of solutions relevant there.

Also in sports stadiums there’s quite a nice market where Tripleplay, who are another one of the Uniguest group, are very prevalent. I probably can’t namedrop too many of the exact stadiums where we find those technologies, but certainly the majority of Premier League football stadiums, and many more further afield outside the U.K., are utilizing technology within the Uniguest group, not only for digital signage but also for streaming live feeds of sports events, and getting that to the non-pitch-facing areas of a sports stadium [unintelligible].

Dean Gratton: So you manage all the signage around that as well? I don’t profess to know too much about rugby. Despite being a Welshman or football fan, I don’t get it. You do all the signage around the stadiums as well?

Simon Carp: Stadiums are a very big part of the Uniguest group’s business. Lots of stadiums and sporting arenas across multiple sports: football, rugby, tennis, NFL, many more.

Two things that might be worth talking a little bit about, we referred to them briefly earlier, but might just [crosstalk] a little bit more about…

Dean Gratton: Yeah, please.

Simon Carp: The first one was, we talked about displays of different shapes and sizes. Stephanie mentioned shelf edge signage briefly. It’s been a very popular area of growth, and shelf edge signage is really what it says. It’s a long, narrow, similar to a letterbox but perhaps much, much longer display which is fixed on the edge of the shelf next to products.

We’ve got one of the biggest rollouts of those globally, thousands of them just deployed with a retail chain nationwide in Australia. Really interesting concept, allowing a retailer to get that content and promotional content about a product right next to the product itself. They particularly run that as an advertising network within their stores. So they will sell advertising slots to all of the brands that are represented within the chemist store, in this case. It’s been incredibly successful for them.

The shelf edge is only the latest addition to their advertising network. They have large format digital signage. They’ve got external street-facing displays as well. It’s very simply a case of supply and demand. They’re booked out at least 12 months in advance for these advertising slots because the brands know how effective they are. So they’ve been looking for more inventive ways of installing displays that can carry advertising within the retail environment, the latest of those being the shelf edge displays. Really effective for them.

It’s quite amazing when you see a shelf unit from top to bottom with one of these narrow shelf edge displays on each shelf, and I think that’s definitely something we can see growing in future [crosstalk].

Dean Gratton: That surely is a tick in the box for sustainability, right? Because normally when you go into a store with the shelf signage, it’s usually a plastic thing with a bit of paper written on saying this is £1.99 or something, but with a shelf signage, you’ve got now the electronic version of it and you can update that ad hoc, and there’s no wastage, there’s no [unintelligible] plastic or anything like that.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: [crosstalk]

Simon Carp: Yeah, absolutely.

Dean Gratton: [crosstalk]

Simon Carp: There’s environmental benefits. There’s efficiencies. Flexibility. When you want to roll out the summer campaign or the fall campaign, or Christmas campaign…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Absolutely.

Simon Carp: … you can have it scheduled long in advance with all the correct content. Content can already have been pre-distributed down to the players. At exactly the time, date and minute and second that you want that content to go live, you can have it scheduled to immediately then appear on all the screens connected to your network.

Dean Gratton: To hear your story about digital signage is great to hear, and to learn more about it because I think the great thing about that technology, it’s taken for granted. We walk down the street and just see these things happen around us and we just see them, we just absorb them. I think that’s a great thing about technology. When you don’t have to think about technology and it’s there, part of your life, and it’s everyday and you don’t have to think about it, that’s when technology is winning.

Simon Carp: Yeah.

Dean Gratton: That’s a big fat tick in a box for you guys…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, absolutely.

Dean Gratton: … for digital signage because when you don’t have to think about it and when it there’s every day and people absorb it, perfect.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. It’s been an amazing interview.

Stephanie Scott: Well, thank you for including us. I should say that to Intel.

Dean Gratton: It’s been a pleasure to talk to you.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: That’s it. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode.

Dean Gratton: If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, you can find out more about retail innovation at insight.tech.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: On behalf of Intel, this has been Sarah-Jayne.

Dean Gratton: And Dean Gratton. Until next time.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Until next time.

[podcast player]

The path to digital transformation is much easier when you have a trusted guide—one who not only understands the challenges of the retail industry but also appreciates the unique character of your business.

Learn how you can chart your journey in this conversation between technology power couple Sarah-Jayne and Dean Gratton, and experts from CDW, a leading multi-brand provider of digital transformation solutions for the retail industry and beyond.

You will learn:

• How to make a business case for digital transformation
• Ways to use a building-block approach to speed deployment and cut costs
• Why Internet of Things (IoT) technology is critical in a rapidly changing retail landscape

Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, SoundCloud, and iHeartRadio, the Retail Tech Chat is a limited-run podcast focused on recovery of the retail and hospitality sector. Subscribe now so you don’t miss an episode!

For more on this topic, read the article Why Retailers Should Embrace Digital Transformation.

 

Transcript

Dean Gratton: Welcome to the Retail Tech Chat sponsored by Intel. I’m Dean Gratton.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: And I’m Sarah-Jayne Gratton.

Dean Gratton: For today together we explore the world of technology and the ways it’s reshaping our lives.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yes. And in this podcast series, we are going to take you on a journey into retail innovation with Intel and its partners.

Dean Gratton: So today we are talking to Jane Liston and Matt Browne from CDW, a leading multi-brand provider of digital transformation solutions to the retail industry and beyond.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Hi, Jane. So great to have you here. Hi, Matt.

Jane Liston: Thank you for having us.

Matt Browne: Hey, guys.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Great to have you here. I’m going to kick this off with a question for you, Jane. What does CDW do and what’s your role there?

Jane Liston: Those who haven’t worked with CDW before, we’re a global organization, value-added reseller, 18 billion pound turnover. Really, what we do is work with our clients around end-to-end solutions, covering hardware, software services, and cloud. That’s us in a nutshell. My role is to lead our retail strategy, so I’m responsible for our go-to-market, building out our retail practice, and how we remain as credible as possible and support our retail customers.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Fantastic.

Dean Gratton: And Matt, what about you? What do you do?

Matt Browne: I’m a solution specialist at CDW. I tend to focus on digital transformation and innovation and just making sure our customers are getting the right solution, and it’s going to deliver on their business needs.

Dean Gratton: What is your background then, Matt?

Matt Browne: Background for me is software development as a standard. I did a master’s degree in artificial intelligence as well. And then from there just move forward into the innovation space with CDW, helping to pilot that within the business and bring those sorts of solutions in. We’ve covered everything from RFID to computer vision, to hybrid cloud and anything beyond that we’ve had a hand in.

Dean Gratton: Okay. A master’s in artificial intelligence, how was that?

Matt Browne: In a nutshell, in a two-second nutshell, I think it’s an incredibly powerful tool that we are yet to discover how to fully utilize and derive value from. And I think there’s some incredibly interesting aspects we can take it down, but it definitely has its full potential to be realized.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Let’s bring what you’ve just said back to retail and to CDW, what role do you see AI playing in the future of retail? That’s probably a really broad question, but what do you think?

Matt Browne: I think it plays a key role in certain elements. I don’t for one minute perceive the idea of a holographic AI welcoming me into a store anytime soon as per iRobot or some other sci-fi publication. But I do see AI providing a huge amount of resource to companies who want to leverage the intelligence they can get from either data generated by the store, or data generated by endpoints on video and audio within the store to actually improve upon customer experience, rather than sat there in the front of the store doing nothing more than telling me I’ll have nice glasses on or a nice hat, for example.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. But with the pandemic, do you think there’s more of a need for, in terms of social distancing on a High Street experience, for example, do you think IO will play more of a role there. Because physical interaction is becoming more and more difficult at the moment.

Matt Browne: Yeah. I know you mentioned that about iRobot and I think that’s really a long, long way off.

Jane Liston: I might just quickly jump in just for a second on this. Because I think some think that you are seeing in certain areas, there is a little bit of this happening and there’s interest in it. I think the challenge sometimes is at the moment where people you’ve got stretch budgets, where do you invest? And where’s going to give the biggest return and some of these give amazing in-store experience, you can see how it’d be great for retailers. But is it something that they can get the business case to stack up on? And it’s the same I think we found a lot with the safety solutions in-store. We did a lot of work around that, where we’ve got quite a good portfolio of social distancing solutions using visual and different technology to do that. But at the moment, it’s just that challenge around it’s a big investment and at the moment do retailers need to be spending in that area. So it’s a real challenge for them, how they manage this and where they use budgets at the moment.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. So that initial return on investment is something, especially with businesses struggling and having these challenges is a huge ask, isn’t it? And will it return.

Jane Liston: Yeah, that’s it. I think the days of… You see some really cool tech and I’m probably the most guilty of this if I see a new product and go to Matt, “Matt. Wow. This is really cool. We could do X, Y, X with it.” And then he’s like, “Hold on a minute, Jane, how’s this actually, what’s the use case here? It’s not just got to be maybe a use case just for social distancing, but how we can spread the value of this across the business and show real value for the retailers.”

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dean Gratton: With new technology in mind, what is the approach technology into the retail environment currently?

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. What’s your approach? What does the journey look like?

Matt Browne: I think for us… Hopefully for most people, it starts with actually defining the business and functional requirements of what the technology needs to do. I think as Jane alluded to, gone are the days of technology for technology’s sake. I think that’s a bit in the past at the minute, it’s about defining what is the problem? Is it too much theft? Is it you want to rationalize the supply chain? Is it customer engagement, whatever it might be? And actually just expanding that and that opens up all the relevant doors to technology into retail and whether that is computer vision, whether that is RFID, whether that is Bluetooth, or it could be as simple as just improving a network in a store. That’s all a technology investment for a retailer. And it’s actually about what does the business require, because we’ve all seen pretty shiny things that we want to put in place, we’ve all got gadgets coming out of our ears. I’m sure, again, as Jane alluded to, it’s that ROI for customers. So it’s building that definable ROI initially on requirements and then opening the doors to tech from there.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. So it’s actually, what do you really need rather than what would you like to have? It is being realistic, isn’t it?

Matt Browne: Yeah. It’s what you need, not what you want, as Modern English used to put it.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dean Gratton: And also along with the technology approach rather than the buzzwords and “Oh, we’ve got this technology, let’s use this technology.” Rather than “What is the problem that needs to be solved?”

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. And how can we do it? And the most cost-effective way for you. It works for you. Exactly.

Dean Gratton: How do you work with Intel to help retailers with their journey?

Matt Browne: From our perspective? I think the way we work with Intel to try and bring technology into retail is we leveraged them on a couple of planes. I think the first one is that they have an immense amount of power and reach globally from both a business perspective and a technology perspective. I think that leadership that they can bring, I think is invaluable to any organization. It doesn’t matter how big you are whether you’re five guys in a garage or 10,000 people in Canary Wharf, the value that those guys can bring. And then I think also their research and development that they put into technology and testing technology, and being able to showcase that without having ourselves having to do as much research, we still need to research the technology.

But having access to their laboratories and their demo centers and being able to bring them into that environment and show them it in the real world. It’s one thing for somebody to show you a video of a hologram, it’s another thing for you to see a hologram going back to holograms. And it’s very impressive when you can see those kinds of things. So I think having that is hugely impactful and it helps bring technology to the forefront of a retailer’s vision.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, absolutely. To have the ability to actually be there to see things without investing yourself, to have this partnership where you can see how this can help our clients. Now I can see how that’s a really positive support system.

Dean Gratton: Actually to see something tangible because having worked in R&D myself, you have all these paperware promises, etc.. And it’s really valuable when a customer can actually touch something and hold something in their hands. Where they actually see something working right in front of them.

Jane Liston: I think it brings it to life and I think what’s become even more important too is over the last six months when life’s changed immeasurably for all of us, and we’re working in a much more disconnected way where we’re not going to big trade shows, getting together at workshops and customer events, that ability to connect and still get a global view. So where we work with Intel and CDW, we’ve got a lot of global clients sometimes being able to share that insight of what’s been happening in the Far East, what are the emerging trends to help share that information with our UK-based retailers and to help guide them and provide those insights that people just aren’t getting at the moment. So helping keep our customers connected with the wider picture and supporting them at the moment with insight. I think that’s really powerful.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. You’re so right, there are so many varied needs, aren’t there. How can you help a given merchant and find a solution that works for them?

Jane Liston: So I think a lot of what we do around that solution provision as Matt said, it’s about understanding their business, but also understanding, first of all, them as a brand. What their priorities are, what’s important to them because every retailer is different and they’ve got different challenges. So I think it’s once we know and really understand them and it’s taking them on that journey, we’ve done a lot of work to create a retail partner community of leading vendors who specialize in retail technology software services so that we can really help fast-track that process. So once we understand those requirements, what we need the outcomes to be, to be able to make those introductions, those specialist partners, and then linking that into those CDW core areas around sort of network and infrastructure.

Because it’s fantastic if a client wants to make an investment in magic mirrors in-store or a great in-store experience. But if the network’s not powerful enough to support that and all of a sudden, your EPOS, you’re having issues with taking payments that that innovation project is going to fail. So it’s getting the right solution partner, but also making sure the client’s got the right foundation to make their projects a success.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. So you’ve looked for end-to-end solutions that are deployment ready so they can really hit the ground running, can’t they?

Jane Liston: Absolutely. And that’s I think what CDW brings to the table, it’s about taking the client on that journey and understanding what’s needed to make that… I talk a lot about data center to store, about how you make that end-to-end solution work so rather than having to work with lots of different organizations. We’re able to simplify and take the complexity out of that journey.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. But I’m right in thinking Jane, Matt, that this is not one size fits all, is it, in terms of your solutions? They are adaptable.

Matt Browne: Exactly.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: In terms of the varied needs. I read or I heard somewhere the other day, you can’t solve retailers’ needs by generic solutions. They need to be more bespoke.

Dean Gratton: More tailored.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. Tailored to needs.

Dean Gratton: We have specific needs.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Browne: Exactly. And that’s the type of approach we want to take. There’s one thing for having a repeatable deliverable solution. And there’s one thing for having a custom solution for every customer. And I think it’s striking that balance. Every retailer is different. Every business is different. And we look to take a building-block approach where we can build a solid foundation, a solid base. And then as the individuality of each brand comes out, we can assess the right prepackaged building blocks to build their brand. And those building blocks will probably only equate to 75% of the solution.

And then there’s a 25% of pure custom branded work for that organization whether it’s the right colors, the right look and feel for their customer, whatever that might be, so that it is a unique solution for them. But 75% of the work is built in this building-block fashion that we can then repeat, deliver, and ensure that we can support them on the journey once the technology is in there as well. It’s one thing to sell something to somebody. It’s another thing to make sure that they’re deriving the value and that we can make sure that that’s going to help the business continue to thrive once the technology’s implemented.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Fantastic. I always liked the analogy when I hear the word tailored, it is a bit like making a designer outfit. Because you’re tweaking this, you’re tweaking that to make sure you’ve got the perfect fit and that’s what you guys are doing. But I know, Dean, you wanted to ask about the market-ready solutions. I think that kind of linked into the…

Dean Gratton: And certainly in the context of Intel. What are the Intel ready solutions and how do they address these issues?

Matt Browne: I think the market-ready solutions from Intel address a number of issues. I think the first one they address, which I think is beneficial to everybody is they do the research, the testing for brands. So once upon a time a brand would come in and they’d want a smart mirror or a mobile pulse system, and they’d have to go out to four or five different people, get different versions, bring them into the store, test them. That’s a lengthy process. It takes time. They have to do all the back-end work to deliver that. And I think what the Intel market-ready solutions do is they take all that work, and Intel does that research and that preparation and can provide a blueprint to succeed for the customer. So I want a magic mirror, here’s a magic mirror and here’s how you deliver it.

And here’s the technology that’s required. And here’s the requirements on the back-end and here’s everything you’re going to need as a business to deliver that. I think that’s what they did really well. And they have such a broad range. And so many partners feed into that range that we’ve got solutions in there. Other partners have got solutions in there, and it allows us to take the people that are doing the right things really well and accelerate them to market. And also not go down the unfortunately “two guys in a garage” route sometimes where they can promise the world. And as you alluded to earlier, it’s all there in blueprint, but it’s not been delivered in a real-world scenario, but for big retailers that’s a necessity.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. Cool.

Dean Gratton: Just one thing really quickly, what is a magic mirror?

Matt Browne: A magic mirror is a mirror that allows you to try on clothes and interact with the store in the changing room.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: I knew that.

Matt Browne: It has video detection, so it can impose clothing on top of you, or makeup on top of your haircuts or glasses, whatever it might be. But also can be touchscreen to allow you to request the next size up or the next size down or a different color or something like that. I almost like to call it that “what other people purchased” experience, but in a store rather than on a webpage.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Would you describe that as augmented reality?

Matt Browne: In a sense some of them are augmented reality. Some of them not, there’s a scale, but we’ve seen a lot of interest in exactly that augmented reality for things like makeup and glasses. So especially at the minute, without being able to go into store to try on a new pair of glasses or try a new eyeshadow color. Brands are looking for ways of using augmented reality to bring that either into a store, but not having to have contact with anyone or into a device so that they can retain the customer experience for a customer whether they’re sat in their living room or sat in traffic on the M25, they can still get to that experience.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: I think that’s great in terms of trying things on; you find the perfect look. What annoys me and I’ve done it…

Dean Gratton: What annoys me is you look into your dressing room and say, “I’ve got nothing to wear.”

Jane Liston: That will always happen, Dean. We will never have enough to wear.

Dean Gratton: So that’s not exclusive to my wife then.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: There’s no technology that will change that though.

Jane Liston: No. No.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Walking in, you found these things that you really, really want and you walk into the shop and they don’t have anything in stock, or there’s no way of knowing if they have it in stock. Or sometimes they show they have it in stock, but when you go in there they don’t. That can be quite frustrating and I’m probably not explaining this very well, but…

Jane Liston: No, I know exactly what you mean and it’s probably something, Sarah, that we speak a lot to retailers about the importance of understanding their inventory. Especially from a customer experience of “Right, that’s in the store, I’m going to there to collect it. Oh no, it’s not.” Brands don’t want that. So this is where we’re seeing a lot of interest around RFID solutions so that you can accurately manage what stocks were, so that you’ve got that confidence. Retailers really want people to go into bricks and mortar. So they’ve got to make sure stock’s available and also it helps with the whole click-and-collect piece as well. And making sure they’ve got the right level of inventory. And it obviously from an operational cost perspective if you want to have the things in stock that people are buying, and not 200 pairs of the wrong jeans that aren’t popular.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: And also I think, Jane, that these days people tend to go out with purpose. They go out, they need to get this, they need to come back. It’s not the strolling around environment that we had before. And it possibly will get back to that, but who knows, but it’s never been more frustrating then to get to somewhere and find that something you thought was going to be there isn’t there. And I think you’re absolutely right. And you’re spot-on with looking at these ways of making sure that stock levels are being monitored and people know what’s there and the store knows what’s needed. I think that’s absolutely the right direction.

Jane Liston: And I think it links a lot into where we’re seeing more retailers looking at ship-from-store as well with how they can make… Where that stock’s been maybe potentially on shelves for a little while, how they can now not just have their main distribution centers, but use that bricks and mortar to ship from as well. Again, that’s critical. They know what’s in there. So when potentially an online order is placed, they’ve got the ability to ship from different locations. And often we’re seeing more demand as well for consumers, we’ve all got a bit used to Amazon Prime and next-day deliveries. So we expect that standard now, and we’re seeing that enhancement now of four-hour delivery windows. And the only way to do that really is ideally be able to ship from these store locations to do that.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, absolutely. I think you’re spot-on and I think with time being… Our time’s limited in terms of how much time we spend outside of the home. What we feel is, is we feel a pressure so I think to build that value in terms of the retail experience is probably the most important it’s ever been in my lifetime.

Jane Liston: Yeah.

Dean Gratton: Actually you’re talking about the supply chain and the logistics to support those products, availability of those products. Do you use the internet of things as a concept to support that ecosystem?

Matt Browne: Yeah. 100%. I think you’d be naive to think that if you wanted a fully managed and visible supply chain, that you wouldn’t be able to use the internet of things. And I think having connected devices, having the internet of things has many labels. But having connected devices that are providing real-time information or near-real-time information on where lorries are. What is on what lorry, how much inventory is available, anything like that. And that comes from a range of devices, anything from cameras monitoring lorries and bays. Through to GPS tags on shipments in the sea when you’re shipping stuff globally, whatever that might be.

I think that technology is more and more important. And having us again, go back to the idea of a building-block approach, having a stable platform for that technology to feed in is so core that the business can then rely on that platform. So they can say in your four-hour delivery window; we can have that to you in four hours and they know they can get it to the shop in two hours. And then it’s two hours from the shop to me, for example. And that’s a huge benefit to retailers being able to provide that clarity and level of information is incredibly important as they try and cope with whatever wave of lockdown or process needs to be in place as we move forward to the minute.

Dean Gratton: Yeah. To have everything connected, it’s great. We’ve got a new concept called the internet of things, but to be honest, before it came along, everything was connected anyway. So we have this new buzz term internet of things. Do you see it adding any other value in the retail experience? The so-called internet of things?

Matt Browne: I think so. I think it adds value to a retailer in terms of, like I said, supply chain shipments, knowing where things are, having access to information. I think it can provide huge benefit to customer as well. I know I like it when I can see a time window for delivery, for example, or I can interact with the technology within a store, from a device, something like that. And they’re all connected things in this internet of things, to give it a broad term. I think that connectivity at the minute for a lot of people it’s hugely important because one, it increases that experience in store, which obviously makes me want to… it makes me want to go back to that store. However, when you’re then delivering data back into the business, it makes a business ability to be more profitable. It allows the business to have that conversation and then move forward. So it works really well both sides of the coin.

Dean Gratton: Yeah. Well, you mentioned data. I suppose that’s an important aspect of the internet of things, the new wealth of data that’s available and the opportunity to have this information about retailers and the experience with data. You could actually model new experiences and issues within that ecosystem because of that new data. How do you use data? How does CDW use data?

Matt Browne: We use it for all manner of things in terms of a business, how we use data. We use a lot of data to identify what’s working and not working for our customers where we’re seeing trends. So where Jane is out there talking to customers and getting information from them, there’s always data being captured there. And we’re able to use that to look for trends. Where should we be focusing as an organization? We have our opinion or where we should be focusing, but the industry might be going in a completely different direction, right? So it’s always good to have that data. And then we see data as huge importance to our customers and is a real focus area for us as a business in terms of it could be retail, it could be XR the industry, data, everybody talks about data being the new oil. Data being worth more than gold, whatever phrase is in the Financial Times this month.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Buzzword of the month.

Matt Browne: Exactly.

Dean Gratton: Data is the new oil. Data is the new currency. Data… What is it now?

Matt Browne: Exactly.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, but it’s so powerful, isn’t it? I think…

Dean Gratton: Only if it’s used right. I’ve worked with a lot of companies that have this enormous amount of data…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: They don’t know what to do with it.

Dean Gratton: … and they scratch their heads; they just don’t know what to do with it.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: You’ve got to know. It’s only powerful if you know how to use it. Yeah. But if you do know what to use it for, it’s incredible. I just would love to understand how giving you guys some examples of merchants you’re working with, how are they using your technology in innovative ways? Give us some examples.

Matt Browne: Sure. So we’re working with, to go on the data side of thing. So the conversation we’ve just had we’re working with a global cosmetics brand that, unfortunately I cannot name. But they are doing exactly that around supply chain. They need to know where stock is? Where it’s going? How long it’s sat in a store for? How they can reduce their inventory and how they can ship that from the store? We have some incredibly interesting statistics from them around holding almost nine months’ worth of stock in a store based on their sale volume for that product. So they’ve just continued to order the same amount every month depending on whether the product was selling or not because that’s all they knew. They didn’t have an accurate view on inventory. So they’re able to then start actually bringing in the stock they need, rather than having boxes and boxes of stock taking up corridors.

And that then enables them to have that right place, right time stock, and not be sitting on product, which then enables them to rationalize supply chain. But then beyond that rationalize their manufacturing process. So they’re not thinking that they’re selling 500 of this shade of lipstick globally. They actually are selling a hundred and people have just been over-ordering because they thought that’s what they needed. So then the manufacturing processes is then able to look at where they need to refocus their efforts and deliver value that way. And so it stems right the way back. So that’s one of the core ones we’ve been working with these guys for a very, very long time.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: That’s a great example. That’s a fantastic example, Matt, because it shows how everything can swing out of balance.

Dean Gratton: It’s about management, isn’t it? Inventory.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. And everything really leads back to really knowing what’s what from the base point. I think that’s amazing.

Jane Liston: And I think it links as well into some of the loss piece as well because obviously these are small items of high value. And you hear some very high percentage in loss rates where they haven’t been able to track the inventory in the way that they can do using this solution. So the savings are massive and there’s been estimates that the project could potentially pay for itself within nine or 10 months, despite the scale of it in what the savings can be.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: That’s really impressive.

Dean Gratton: And is there anything else you’d like to touch upon now that you haven’t spoken about?

Jane Liston: I think what is important for us as a business as well is we’ve spoken a lot today about innovation and how we can help. And a benefit of a market-ready solution around repeatable still with customization and with predictable costs because that’s really important as well. But for us, what’s really important as well, is that relationship piece with our customers. It’s about that journey on working together in partnership because it’s not about looking at tactical projects; it’s about building up that understanding so that we become a virtual extension of a team. And that’s really important for us if we’re trying to… I always try and look at it through the retailer’s eyes and they’ve got a really complex world to look after.

Jane Liston: Because they’ve not only got the bricks-and-mortar store, but they’ve got corporate as well. So they’ve almost got two worlds that they need to manage, which is a lot of complexity. And if we can help with simplifying some of that by understanding their business properly and their challenges, it enables us to build up that long-term partnership, which is just really important for us as a business.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: So, and Jane, what do you think differentiates CDW from others in the marketplace and what are your core values?

Jane Liston: I think what stands us apart is there’s a couple of things really. I’ll have to touch on our size and scale and our ability to do global solutions because that’s probably something that we’ve not touched upon. We supply to over 150 countries. So when we’re working with retailers globally…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: That’s so impressive.

Jane Liston: … we can offer that single. Yeah, we’ve got an amazing logistics and supply chain business. And that’s such a core element for retailers. Getting new kit to store is such a headache, especially with different currencies and different challenges and the cultural differences. So that’s the massive value of what we can do with simplifying that. And also about building up for us, it’s about partnerships as well about really understanding our customers, their brand, their business challenges. Because they’ve not just got the world of bricks and mortar, but they’ve got corporate, they’ve got e-commerce, they’ve got such a complex landscape and they’re being pressed very hard on operational costs.

And now it is a challenging time, so it’s really important for us to be seen as an extension of team, to help support them, take the complexity. And if we can help fast-track some of the innovation conversations by our knowledge, working with Intel on the market-ready solutions, and then harnessing CDW core skills around infrastructure and data centers package up a complete solution. I think that’s really powerful, too. So it’s about the relationship, understanding the business and at the moment also being there for people. It’s tough times and we’re all people at the end of the day, working with people, so how we can support our customers and keep them connected.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: That human touch. Wow. I’m so impressed.

Jane Liston: We can talk about sensors. And that’s all great, but at the end of the day we’re humans who are in challenging times and we need to look after each other a bit.

Dean Gratton: And how did you begin your journey with Intel?

Matt Browne: So the journey with Intel began, I want to say about four years ago now. And it came at an interesting time. CDW had just finished purchasing Kelway. We were coming into the fold of part of the CDW family. And we at that time were spinning up a shadow digital transformation team within the organization. It just so happened at that time that Intel were putting more attention into Kelway or CDW UK. It was a match made in heaven almost at the time because the guys from Intel really wanted to do some interesting work with us. We really wanted to get into some interesting work. And so we just were drawn together through that process. It started slowly and over time we’ve just built that partnership up, worked together. It’s been countless meetings, Webexes, sessions together, countless lunches and dinners and drinks and things.

But it’s been a fantastic relationship. And I think it’s gone from strength to strength, just us being able to leverage from the guys at Intel and all that great stuff we spoke about around research, development and everything there. But also I’d like to think Intel have been able to gain from us in what we’re seeing and how we’ve addressed different situations that have been different to the way they would have focused on it. And I think that’s been quite core, hopefully quite core for those guys as well. And I think we’ve had a really strong working relationship for the last four years.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Wow, what a partnership.

Dean Gratton: That’s absolutely wonderful.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I’m very happy with the way this has gone. Is there anything else that you’d like us to cover, guys?

Jane Liston: No, I think that was really what we wanted to cover. Just around obviously the Intel partnership, the benefit, the market-ready solutions.

Dean Gratton: Thank you both.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Thank you both so, so much for an amazing insight into what you do and how you work with Intel. And this has just been a fantastic interview for us.

Dean Gratton: And we’re recording this just before the weekend. So have a fabulous weekend.

Jane Liston: Yeah. Massive thank you for having us. It’s been great to meet you and get to know you guys better and yes, and thanks to Intel for their support.

Dean Gratton: And likewise.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: And that’s it. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode.

Dean Gratton: And if you’ve enjoyed this podcast, you can find out more about retail innovation at insight.tech.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: On behalf of Intel. This has been Sarah-Jayne..

Dean Gratton: And Dean Gratton.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Until next time.

Dean Gratton: Until next time.

[podcast player]

The events of 2020 completely redefined the concept of the customer experience. Now when consumers venture out to a store, they expect to be rewarded with an experience that justifies the trip.

Hear how digital media plays a pivotal role in delivering this experience in this conversation between technology power couple Sarah-Jayne and Dean Gratton, and experts from Beaver Trison, a specialized retail and hospitality agency that serves companies including ODEON, IKEA, Costa, and Premier Inn.

You will discover:

• Why customer experience is driving the success of large stores and popups alike
• How to deliver highly targeted content that motivates purchases
• Ways to create a seamless journey from mobile browsing to in-store offers

Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, SoundCloud, and iHeartRadio, the Retail Tech Chat is a limited-run podcast focused on recovery of the retail and hospitality sector. Subscribe now so you don’t miss an episode!

Transcript

Dean Gratton: Welcome to the Retail Check Chat, sponsored by Intel. I’m Dean Gratton.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: And I’m Sarah-Jayne Gratton.

Dean Gratton: Together we explore the world of technology and the ways it is reshaping our lives.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: In this podcast series, we are going to take you on a journey into retail innovation with Intel and its partners. Today, we’re talking to Peter Critchley from Beaver Trison. Now, they’re a digital agency serving the retail and hospitality sector. They deliver tailor-made solutions to amazing companies including Odeon, IKEA, Costa, and Premier Inn.

Dean Gratton: Well, basically, what does Beaver Trison do and what is your role? Actually, Trison, you pronounce it differently.

Peter Critchley: Well, sometimes we say Trison, it depends where we are. So Trison Group, which is the Spanish parent company of Beaver Trison, again, it depends on where you are, how you say it, is the Spanish number-one digital integrator in Europe and is our parent company, and provides very similar solutions to what we are, which is why that kind of buddying up happened a year ago. We, like they, provide digital platforms and customer experiences for our customers. My role has always been to work with customers and be a tech evangelist, really, if you like, and work out how to say “Yes” to their questions and the problems that they present us with, the challenges that they present us with. One of my contributions, I guess, to the group, is helping to lead…

Dean Gratton: Yeah, what is your role? Yeah.

Peter Critchley: … the strategic role, really, of the group, in terms of the data and retail and integration and that whole kind of digitalization piece, and working with other key parts of the group and the team to make sure that what we do really is at the forefront of current digital trends, and helping our customers to get through very difficult times like this using digital platforms to service their customers.

Dean Gratton: How do you identify digital trends?

Peter Critchley: Do you know what? It’s by being at the forefront of it. It’s by being at the cutting edge of what’s going on. It’s by doing the operational elements of the work that we do. So a lot of companies will sit there and produce a product and say, “This is a product that will do X, Y or Z,” and put it out on the market and sell it to people and see how they use it. We are actually delivering those solutions and platforms on behalf of our customers and we do it on a daily basis. So we feel the same operational challenges that they have and we’re in almost a symbiotic relationship with them. So we’re very much part of their team. So it enables us to really see where requirements are and what solutions are needed and to start thinking about how people like Intel, what their platforms can deliver to alleviate some of the challenges that people have.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. I mean, it’s been a time of tremendous challenges for so many people and, I guess, almost also a time for digital evolution in terms of the way that people are seeing how their businesses are heading and how you can assist in that. You’ve mentioned Intel and we’ll come back to some examples of that later on. But, I mean, one big thing, digital signage, I’m hearing a lot about this lately. How do you think the role of digital signage is evolving in these times?

Peter Critchley: Sometimes it’s a bit like a revolving door with digital signage. I’ve been in this industry since 1995 and we’ve been running this business since 1998, and it can be used as an equivalent to fancy print a lot of the time.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah.

Peter Critchley: Over the years, people have evolved it to become much more capable with content and video. But, truth be known, it really needs to evolve significantly now. There’s only really a few players in this space who have got the pedigree to utilize the opportunities that digital surfaces present. I think the evolution of it now is towards much more intelligent digital surfaces or digital signage and using IoT, using machine learning, thinking about how it can be extremely dynamic and contextual and…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: And personalized, I guess, Peter.

Peter Critchley: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: I mean, fixing it so that people could see what would appeal to them. Very predictive, I guess.

Peter Critchley: It’s got to add value. At the end of the day, we’re talking about an experience wherever you are, whether it’s in retail, or cinema, or hospitality, and even more so in these times that we find ourselves in, that people are looking for experiences. The digital platforms, and screens, and LED screens, and kiosks, and signage, and whatever it clearly is, and mobile platforms, offer an opportunity to create a really joined-up customer experience.

So I think, Sarah, it’s much less about digital signage these days. I’m trying to kind of train myself out of the phrase, really, because I’ve been saying it for so many years. But I think the risk is that if we talk about digital signage, it becomes much more about the how and not the why. Really, we should be talking about the why, as I know you guys do, because that’s what this is all about. Why are we doing what we’re doing? What is the best way of achieving that? Then, how do we do it? That’s the technology play at the end that should be delivering on the why that we’ve got.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. Yeah, that’s so poignant. In fact, I mean, we’ll come back to sort of the why and also the how it’s going to be put over the…

Dean Gratton: Y-O-Y-O-Y spells yo-yo!

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Oh why, oh why?

Dean Gratton: Why? I don’t know.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Oh why, oh why, oh why? But, no, I don’t know. Did I watch it on my own? I think I watched it on my own, but we, I, was watching an episode of Black Mirror the other day, and the character in it, the woman, she was looking at a new apartment. She was looking at buying this new apartment. As she walked around, the signage, for want of a better expression, the digital signage, evolved to include her in the advertisement, so she could actually see herself living the life in this complex. Now, that’s very science fiction, I know. But are we evolving towards that very personalized involvement, if you like, with the marketing itself?

Dean Gratton: Actually, Peter, with that in mind, like Sarah said, what technologies would be enabling such an experience?

Peter Critchley: I think it’s a nuance, but it’s an important one. I think it’s less about personalization and it’s more about making it feel personal. The nuances, everyone in this industry talks about Minority Report all the time. Actually, I haven’t heard it for a little while, but it was almost every time you talked about personalization, Minority Report would be brought up as an example of it. That’s a world that I don’t think anybody wants to live in, where you’ve got advertising coming at you from all the sides, that knows what you like and how you like it and is trying to push you to a certain point of decision-making.

The making it feel personal is much more about relevancy. It’s much more about not so much, did you search for washing machines on Google and now every time you go to any website, all you see are washing machine adverts and adverts. It’s more about, are you furnishing your home? Are you looking for a new kitchen? Is this a space that you’re looking to develop? So let’s think about learning more about people, so that you can make the experience more personal and relevant and not annoying. There’s a very fine line, isn’t there…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Oh, yes.

Peter Critchley: … between “Really great, amazing. How did you ever know,” me clicking on a button and pressing Buy, to “I hate you forever. Get out of my life.”

Dean Gratton: Yeah. Get out the refund, then it [crosstalk].

Peter Critchley: Yeah, yeah. Do you know, that can be luck. It can be time and place. But we’ve all been in that situation where you’ve seen an advert for something and it’s like they’ve read your mind and you go, “That’s amazing. I absolutely have to buy this right now.” So every brand is trying to get to that moment with every customer and every consumer that they’re trying to engage with.

So I think the journey begins before you go anywhere near a retail store, and the retailer needs to start to think about how they can understand better the customers that are walking through the door and then address them appropriately. So the signage, the digital experience on their phone, the takeaways that they have in terms of experiences when they’ve left the environments, are really relevant and meaningful and reinforce the brand messaging and products that they’re looking to sell in a more relevant way.

Technology that enables that is connecting apps through to store devices and to content delivery networks that will cover a broader spectrum of display methods and it’s linking it to environments and preferences and colors and ensuring that people that are talking to you have an insight. I mean, people like Burberry have worked hard on that client relationship for many years and have been really honing it to a fine art. When it’s done really well, it works fantastically. Digital, it provides a great platform for doing that. But we have to have a very joined-up and kind of strategic view of it from the beginning, and that brings us back to the why. So you think about those journeys and think about the user profiles and how you’re going to implement that.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: That’s really insightful, Peter, but also, you talk a lot about the in-store experience. I mean, how do you think shopping patterns are changing in the wake of this pandemic, if it is the wake? How do you think things are changing? Or are they moving in the right direction? Are we moving backwards? Are we moving in a different direction?

Peter Critchley: I think that the really reassuring thing is that people want to go to shops. We went through a lockdown where we weren’t allowed to go out at all, really, apart from our hour of exercise, certainly in the UK. As soon as we were allowed to go to shops, there were queues. I thought that was really great.

Dean Gratton: I think you were allowed to go to the shops. I mean, to shop for the essentials, weren’t we?

Peter Critchley: That’s right. That’s right. But as soon as you were able to go to a clothes shop like a Primark, I mean, there were massive queues outside Primark. They were wrapping around buildings. IKEA, as soon as they were allowed to open, and it was around the 4th of July or shortly before then, there were people queuing up in streams around the car parks to go and shop at IKEA. So there’s a reassuring element of going to physically see a product and to engage with it and to walk away with it on that day.

Online has gone up by, it represents about 30% now, 35% of all shopping, of all retail, and it’s had about a 10% boost since lockdown. But it’s not replaced the retail experience, and experience is the key piece there. It’s much more about experience adding value to that journey that someone’s made to go to a physical space and then making it relevant and making it entertaining. This should be a joyful experience. We should be enjoying ourselves when we go shopping. Lord knows, I am not the world’s best shopper. But I do like it when there’s effort that has been put it. And do you know what? From my perspective, it can just be a decent chair with something engaging in front of it, whilst my hard, long-suffering wife tries on something amazing. But the truth is, is that we’ve got to try harder in retail, and there’s a demand for it. People, they want to go in. They want to walk away with a product. If you don’t have that product and yet you’re promoting it in the window as part of this current season, there’s not a lot of forgiveness for that.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: No, no. We actually talked about this the other day, that there’s nothing worse than seeing a product online, going to the store and it’s not available. Especially now, I think, when people actually go out to the High Street with more of an agenda, perhaps, because they know that perhaps they’ve got to have an agenda to get what they need and come back than perhaps they did before where they could just meander. I think it’s become more precious, the High Street, in that they use it for what they need to use it for.

Peter Critchley: That targeted thing is absolutely true, Sarah.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Peter Critchley: I’m sure of it. I think that’s a good thing for retailers, in a way, because they know that people walking through their door, the percentage of people that are going to be purchasing, potentially, is higher. There may be fewer of them, but their efforts are more rewarded for it. So I think the other thing, trends that we’re going to start to see a lot more of, are the centralization around larger stores. I think that having lots of smaller stores is probably not going to persist. I think there’ll be much larger experience-led locations. Whether they’re out of town or city centers, I think both would apply, but there’ll be investment into these bigger, I want to call them multi-flagship stores, if you want to call them that. Then pop-ups, I think, will be another trend that we’ll start to see a lot more of, where there’ll be focus around high activity areas or events, and brands will be using digitally enabled pop-ups to engage with people in a similar way to the way that they would at these multi-location flagships that they’ll have.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: As you say, it’s really about that engagement thing, isn’t it? It’s about entertainment, engaging, giving value to the consumers.

Dean Gratton: Yeah. What do you mean, Peter, by pop-up stores?

Peter Critchley: So there’s going to be a lot of real estate that isn’t going to be being used over the coming 12, 18, 24 months, and I think that there’ll be certain brands that would benefit from using those for…

Dean Gratton: For brand building.

Peter Critchley: … shortish periods of time. Picture this then, Dean, if you’re thinking about winter clothing and you’re a brand that makes winter clothing, you might well take over a small sub-1,000-square-foot space but put very large LED screens in maybe around the walls. You might invest in floor-based LED as well to create an immersive environment, and you won’t really have a lot of stock there. You won’t be selling products, per se. It’ll be a brand experience which you can then lead people to, maybe it’s through interactive devices or contactless engagement through eye tracking or what have you, which then is a walk-away. So it’s a brand connection that then leads to a purchase either in-store, through an online purchase, or post-experience when they’ve followed up through the contacts by the brand.

So I think those, and those can move around. So there’s been a bit of that with some of the forward-thinking brands. But I think there’ll be a lot more of it now where you’ll have sort of almost a roadshow but it’s going pop-up to pop-up, it’s spending a few weeks at a particular location. Those people that are, whether it’s in Soho, or North London, or in Manchester, or Paris, or New York, those locations are going to have people with disposable income still, that are looking to engage and are looking to have these brand experiences. But it’s going to be more challenged. So I think that’s the rethink that I think is coming, which digital is going to play a key part in.

Dean Gratton: You mentioned eye tracking, and of course, that leads on to facial recognition. Of course, that brings us to the subject of artificial intelligence, which I think for most people is quite a scary subject. I mean, what are the differences between the eye tracking and facial recognition? I think we already touched upon, in another discussion, about GDPR and the sensitivities around that topic and the fact that you’re tracking people’s faces, where they’re looking, what they’re seeing, what they might be interested in, and how you target products to them with that technology. How does that work out?

Peter Critchley: There’s a clear line between the two. So facial scans…

Dean Gratton: There’s a lot of questions in this one question. Sorry.

Peter Critchley: That’s okay. No, no. They all tie together and, to be honest with you, you’re saying what everyone thinks, really, because it is quite confusing. Technology, when you’re looking at a camera, you have no idea if it’s a facial recognition camera. Or it is it a facial analytics camera? The difference between the two is the storage of your personal data, so your image, and then tying that to your personal data, so name, date of birth, etc. So typically associated with the police in the UK or other government organizations and, of course, widely used in countries like China and used both by state actors and also by brands and airports and similar to enable a richer environment. So it’s an area which has a lot of positives and potential negatives and there’s a lot of people that talk very passionately on both sides.

Facial analytics is where we tend to play. Facial analytics is anonymous because we’re not storing any images at all, although it’s a camera. It’s often referred to as computer vision. So computer vision is using a camera to show you something and then the computer analyzes it and turns that into data. So it compares you to a data model, your face to a data model, and then it will assign gender, age, emotion, state, and various other things. These models are pretty accurate these days. The technology has been around for 15, 20 years now. Intel OpenVINO is a platform that we use for this technology. It enables a very rich environment for you to understand who, in broad generalized groups, you’re looking at, and also the numbers that you’re looking at.

Then within that sort of one anonymized face you have a pair of eyes which will be looking left or right, or up or down, and dwelling in a certain place, and you also have a face, which is turning left, right. So you can use that data to give you an insight into where people are, what they’re doing, how long they’re looking at something for, what attention you get physically with the eyes on the content or the area in-store. You can use this to align it with digital campaigns that are being shown, or indeed, you can apply it in an analog world where you might have a wall of shoes and you could determine which shoes get the most attention from people that are stood in the vicinity.

Dean Gratton: Peter. Sorry, Peter. If you are tracking people’s eyes, what they’re looking at and whatnot, and you’re not storing that data, then how do you build up a model of a consumer’s experiences and whatnot so you can actually perhaps target products more effectively?

Peter Critchley: Right. So, you are storing it and you are aligning it to a person. So there is a person, they’re just not personalized in that process. So in this anonymized world of facial analytics or facial detection, you’re not assigning that to an individual, but you are assigning it to a person. So you know that a person, a male, 42 years old, stood in front of this space and looked at four different sets of shoes and dwelled particularly on the Nike and then turned right. So, that’s an experience that that person had. If they turned right, the chances are that they were going off to this area.

We are also working on connecting, and this is where machine learning comes in, where you start connecting those anonymous journeys, but you can connect the chances of a 42-year-old male that you’ve just literally measured in the shoe section, and three seconds later he falls into the camera detection area for the till. It’s likely that it’s the same person. The chances are pretty good. So those are the kind of processes that you can start to build up. It’s great for brands because they don’t have to think about GDPR. They don’t have to worry about the potential pushback from customers. There are opportunities to then tie that into a more personalized experience. So you can, for example, have a screen that people are looking at and engaging with and present a QR code that would then tie you into an app. So the app experience could then link you. Then suddenly you can tie what they were doing and looking at to the actual person. So you can then personalize that experience further, obviously with their permission.

One of the things that this industry, our industry, has to do better is tell people what we’re doing. We have to explain it to people, say, “This is what we’re doing and this is how it works. This is the benefit to you.” Because there is a lot of mistrust of technology. This industry has to work harder at building trust before there’s an expose by Panorama or whoever it’d be. There’s no reason why we shouldn’t be telling people what we’re doing because it’s actually for everyone’s benefit.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, yeah. I think that’s a really important point.

Dean Gratton: Education, isn’t it?

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah.

Dean Gratton: It’s to make people aware of what’s happening and why we’re doing it.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: It’s educating people that it’s not a Big Brother thing, it’s actually about making sure that their needs are catered for, that we’re providing the best service that we possibly can in that environment.

Peter Critchley: Absolutely.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: So everything is leading back to them in terms of value. I think, yeah [crosstalk].

Peter Critchley: And it ties back, doesn’t it?

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Peter Critchley: It ties back to that experience that I was saying where you saw something that was so right for you, you just had to have it. It was exactly what you were looking for. That’s got to be the panacea of retail, hasn’t it?

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. Absolutely.

Peter Critchley: For all of us. We want to go shopping and see things that we love everywhere we go. And…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: It’s virtual mind reading and I love that. If people realized this was being done to make their lives easier, rather than this kind of conspiracy theory that is kind of woven into the media that just draws upon hyperbole of a negative nature, I think people would go, “Wow. Actually, yeah. We actually love what you’re doing for us.”

Peter Critchley: Did you know, Sarah, about, I think it was last year, maybe it was a year and a half ago, but anyway, I spoke to this journalist from The Sunday Times? He wanted to talk about this technology. He wanted to talk about cameras and how it works and everything. So I had a chat with him and I was telling him all this stuff that I’m telling you. We were talking about personalization and all he was trying to do is spin it around to “But what about if it sees children? What does that mean?”

Dean Gratton: Oh, dear.

Peter Critchley: You’re like, “Well, it will see children and it will record them as children.” “But is it recording pictures of children?” I’m like, “Well, no, it’s not.” But I guess people are concerned about that. But, yeah, I get it. But there is a real kind of desire, especially in the media, to portray this as something that is nefarious and dangerous and is going to infringe your personal liberty. It’s not, of course. I mean, listen, in the wrong hands, it definitely would be, but we’re part and parcel of an industry that is responsible for and it cares passionately about improving experiences for people and enhancing the experiences that people have. It’s not in our interest to drive anything that does challenge or complicate that in any way.

But I can see how the advertising side of it could get a bit interesting if you were starting to record images and start to… There was, back in, I think it was about three or four years ago, there was an oil company that used a automatic numberplate recognition system hooked into the DVLA system. They had a camera set up on a digital billboard in West London and as your car approached, it would say, “Hey, Mr. Mercedes Driver, you need this oil for your car.” They did a better job than that because there was a marketing team that actually was behind it and didn’t actually do it like that, because that wouldn’t work. But you see what I mean? They were using this data and there was a bit of an uproar about it because they shouldn’t be using the DVLA database to then advertise to people in that way. That’s where that can complicate the picture because people see those kinds of abuses of data and have an issue with it, rightly.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. As you rightly said before, it’s such a fine line, isn’t it? That your sort of case studies history and the way that you support brands. I really admire companies such as yourselves that really act for the consumer but actually support brands in a way that really allows them to shine. Kind of going back to the Intel thing, one thing I would like to ask you about, because I think this sounds really cool being a coffee lover myself, is that you supported Intel at this year’s ISE in Amsterdam. I think it was back in February before the lockdown, wasn’t it?

Peter Critchley: Just before, yeah.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, just before. And you created this kind of mock coffee shop. I just want to hear more about that because that’s right up my street.

Peter Critchley: It was a demonstration of how you can utilize technology to create a more personal experience within a coffee shop. It was simple in its execution, but the way we did it was engaging. It was a good example of how content is really crucial in this. I mean, we spent a lot of time talking about data and experiences and journeys, but you know what? Content is the thing that really connects people to those experiences. With Intel, we developed a superhero theme…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, yeah, that’s great.

Peter Critchley: … for the coffee shop environment. And so there’s an interactive kiosk where you would go and order your coffee, place your order and type in your name. When it was ready, the barista would tap an iPad and just, he’d see those orders on his iPad, obviously, and he’d be then creating those drinks, and tap the name that was on the iPad. Then there’d be a whole little content show that drove an experience for the customer, which would bring their name up and, depending on the coffee that they’d selected, it would have that character. We were logging all of the data for that as well, so we were able to feedback to Intel or, let’s say, the coffee shop in this case, the dwell time that people had, which screens they were looking at, which animations worked better and which ones made people happier. So there was a little data story behind that as a little proof of concept of how it all works.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: I love that. I love that idea. It’s just a really nice little example of how what you’re doing can kind of bring a sort of…

Peter Critchley: A smile, right?

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: And bring you a little entertainment into ordering a coffee, which I love.

Peter Critchley: Yeah. I think it comes back to a maxim which we have, which is “Measure, measure, measure.” You’ve got to measure what’s going on because if you don’t understand the space, the problem, how can you engage with it and fix it? There’s so much of that needed at the moment with environments that brands are operating, wherever they may be, that there’s opportunities to measure using inexpensive equipment to really understand what people are doing in the spaces. Because, the truth be known, there’s not been that much of an imperative to do it until now.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: No.

Peter Critchley: Because times, they haven’t been amazing, but they’ve not been terrible either. So brands have been able to focus on other things. But there is an opportunity at the moment to really kind of get down and dirty with the data of who, where, when, in terms of what people are doing to engage.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: I think, yeah, that’s such a great summary of it all because it’s all about what we do, isn’t it, every day that gives us that perfect retail experience, gives us that perfect going there, coming back and going, “Wow, that was amazing”? And all the things that you’re building in to creating this perfect insight are looking to the future to make this retail experience something that, albeit, may be brief in the future because we may have to curtail our time out. I’m sure, over the years, things will change. But right now, time is valuable and time out is basically a holiday for a lot of people, isn’t it?

Dean Gratton: I mean, it is. We talk about post-COVID. And, well, what’s going on at the moment, I’m not quite sure post-COVID would exist, well, for now, in the foreseeable future.

Peter Critchley: Yeah, yeah. I think you’re right, Dean.

Dean Gratton: Yeah, this could be lingering around for some time, this COVID malarkey.

Peter Critchley: I never liked “new normal,” really. I was never a big fan of the phrase because it felt to me like it was better to say “next,” because really, I think there was pre-COVID and then there’s life after COVID, right?

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah.

Peter Critchley: The whole retail landscape will be completely different because those people, like my mum, that never really engaged too much with Amazon or really engaged too much with online delivery, suddenly have discovered it’s really not that hard and, actually, it’s pretty good and “Do you know what? Amazon are pretty good at this.” They’ve sussed it out. “Actually, I can get what I want from Ocado. This is incredible.” That won’t go away.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Oh, no.

Peter Critchley: That’s why Ocado’s stock value has doubled in the past six months and it’s why it will continue to grow. So the people, the businesses, the operators, the brands that have recognized that it’s not going to be the same, people have changed, their perceptions of where risk lies has changed, their demands and expectations within retail have changed and the products that they want to engage with and buy haven’t changed enormously, but the way that they do it has. So there’s loads of opportunity and you’ll see that playing out, I’m sure, through those that survive and those that struggle to make it through the next sort of difficult days that are ahead for retail.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Well, I think there’s also…

Peter Critchley: But there’s plenty that can do it.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: A great point you made there, Peter, in that. I mean, talk about this being a learning curve for some of the elderly, Peter. That, actually, it’s enabling them to have more everyday connectivity to people and services than they would normally have anyway. So without backtracking on the retail experience, which is wonderful, in a sense, technology and this connectively gives something for all, doesn’t it?

Peter Critchley: There was a big kind of inflection point with iPads and iPhone, obviously, but iPads especially. When the iPad came out, I remember very clearly people saying, “What’s the point of that? It’s just a big phone. Why would you buy one of those? I’ve got an iPhone already.” I heard that over and over and over again. And do you know what? That thing has been so successful.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Oh, God.

Peter Critchley: It’s changed everything. Suddenly, people realized, “This is transformational. This has changed how I connect with content from all the brands and media providers that I’m used to.” And we’ve never looked back since. The same is true, I think, at the moment, with digital and retail. I think there are opportunities for brands to really connect with the online experience and take it to the offline environment and to really properly engage with that.

We’ve done work with Made.com and others like Fujifilm and brought them into a space where their online experiences are now an intrinsic part of the offline spaces that they operate in, and turn them into a truly engaging, connected space that feels very dynamic. That, I think, is where the digitalization of our lives has taken them significantly forward. That’s going to need to be reflected in, let’s face it, the lagging behind that we’ve seen in a lot of the High Street and the resistance to it. “It’s an expense. It’s a cost.” It’s not, actually. There’s a significant return on investment from it if you do it the right way, and that’s the crucial bit, right, if you do it the right way.

Dean Gratton: The thing is, for me, IoT’s more than just one specific application because the IoT is a large concept where multiple things are connected and from your perspective with digital signage, how is that working out as a concept? And how are you manifesting it in the real world?

Peter Critchley: We’re seeing a trend, clearly, within retailers to engage with that. Some of them have been using these systems, whether it’s RFID or other technologies, for a long time. The customer-facing side of IoT has been a little slower, I think, to engage. It’s, to be honest with you, partly because it’s probably quite technical. There’s a lot of complexity to doing it the right way and to making sure that these systems do talk to each other correctly and that the experience is repeatable and consistent and enjoyable.

So we’re seeing this year, really, and it is now about this year, trends towards really thinking about connecting U-POS systems and making them drive a broader story through IoT. So whether that’s going to be stock availability and how that changes the mix of content on digital surfaces, or whether you’re thinking about how, if a customer is looking at a particular product, and we’re going back to the OpenVINO piece here, maybe that illuminates using DMX-controlled lighting that’s controlled through EdgeX equipment.

So all of those sort of very subtle but important connections that make you feel better and engage you with the space that you’re in, I think are becoming really practical and usable for retailers. I can’t see a downside to that, really. I think it’s just going to be a much more interesting experience when you go shopping, or when you go to the cinema, or when you go out into hospitality environments and hotels, because it will feel much more exciting and, let’s face it, futuristic, which, it’s what excites me, right?

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah.

Dean Gratton: Yes, and seamless and transparent, because ultimately with new technology for the consumer, you shouldn’t know it’s there. It should just be seamless, transparent, you just enjoy the experience.

Peter Critchley: That’s really hard to achieve, isn’t it? That frictionless experience, that seamless engagement, that kind of technology…

Dean Gratton: Let’s work on that.

Peter Critchley: … that just talks to itself and works every time. I mean, that is tough. I think when it’s achieved, people don’t notice it and that’s absolutely the Apple way.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Absolutely.

Peter Critchley: This is technology that’s highly complex and very finely tuned and yet it feels like it just does what you want it to do all the time.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: It’s just there. It can become so integral to an experience that people take it for granted. That is the ultimate compliment, really.

Dean Gratton: Absolutely, yeah. Absolutely.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Because it’s literally there, you don’t think about it. You turn on a tap, you get water. You don’t really want to know where it comes from. You don’t. You just have water. You walk in…

Peter Critchley: You don’t need to know, do you?

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: No.

Peter Critchley: You just don’t need to know. It’s not important. It’s not relevant to me how the iPhone processes the data and ends up showing me the right weather forecast. I just like the way it does it and that’s nice.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: It just does it. Poof.

Peter Critchley: It’s the same with getting in a car. I mean, to be honest with you, I’ve never really truly understood how cars work anyway. So I drive an electric car these days and that’s far simpler to understand. It’s just a motor. Great. Perfect. I think, I’ve been sitting here listening to you guys, it’s reminded me of my wife and I, especially through lockdown, we’ve been talking about how when we’re in the same space, let’s put the phones down. Let’s not be on the devices, the glowing box, and let’s make sure we are communicating and not being absent. That’s…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: I think that’s so important.

Peter Critchley: It is, it’s truly important. The digital retail environment is not about in your face. It goes back to what I was saying about, it feels personal, but it’s not personalized. So it’s not trying to address me and say, “Hey, Peter. This is what you’d love. This is great for you.” What it is doing, though, is in my periphery, it’s showing me things that I’m interested in, but it’s not driving me and saying, “You’ve got to look at this. This is amazing. This is for you.” It’s this call to the space and the physical that’s very attractive that makes people go to these retail spaces. The way that digital works needs to be seamless, frictionless, not in your face, quite subtle and engaging, but in a non-confrontational way. That’s where you’ll get brand engagement on a level that is meaningful, I think, and…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Well, that’s [crosstalk].

Peter Critchley: … very hard to achieve.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: … rather than a huge bellow in front of you, it’s a gentle whisper in your ear.

Peter Critchley: Got it, right.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: I think…

Dean Gratton: When we achieve that, then that’s perfection.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Well, yeah, that’s where we’re heading. Peter, we have loved talking to you. It has been amazing.

Peter Critchley: Oh, likewise. It’s been great.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: I can’t believe our time has flown by because we’ve had a great conversation, albeit it was [crosstalk].

Peter Critchley: It’s been such fun.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: That’s it. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode.

Dean Gratton: If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, you can find out more about retail innovation at insight.tech.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: On behalf of Intel, this has been Sarah-Jayne.

Dean Gratton: And Dean Gratton. Until next time.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Until next time.

[podcast player]

The pandemic has created new sensitivities around interpersonal contact—and nowhere is that more true than in the retail and hospitality sector. Happily, new touchless retail technologies are helping merchants make their businesses safer, more comfortable, and more efficient.

Discover how the industry is moving forward in this conversation between technology power couple Sarah-Jayne and Dean Gratton, and experts from BlueStar, a leading distributor of mobility, point-of-sale, RFID, and security solutions.

You will learn:

• How the checkout experience is evolving to meet new expectations
• Why technologies like RFID are critical for store operations
• How leading retailers are deploying these technologies today

Listen Here

                  

Listen to Retail Tech Chat Episode 1: AI Innovations for the Customer Experience

 

Transcript

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Welcome to the Retail Tech Chats, sponsored by Intel. I’m Sarah Jane Gratton.

Dean Gratton: And I’m Dean Gratton.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: And together we explore the world of technology and the ways it’s reshaping our lives.

Dean Gratton: So in this podcast series, we are taking a new journey into retail innovation with Intel and its partners.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: And today we’re talking to Gordon Atkins from BlueStar Europe, a leading distributor of mobility, point of sale, RFID and security solutions, which work exclusively with value-added resellers.

Dean Gratton: Gordon, thank you ever so much for joining us today.

Gordon Atkins: No worries. It’s great to be here.

Dean Gratton: And, of course, ultimately what does BlueStar do? And ultimately, what is your role?

Gordon Atkins: So BlueStar is a solutions distributor. So we work with different manufacturers, bringing their items together and putting them into solutions available for resellers, ISVs, anybody to take to market, to help solutions in retail, hospitality, warehousing, and other areas.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: That’s really interesting because I think these days retailers are looking for innovation to make sure, one, with potentially reduced staff levels, they’ve got means of tracking things. And I also think that retail is moving forward so much into a data world. Would you agree with that, Gordon?

Gordon Atkins: Oh, definitely. We’re in a real-time world now. And when people say, “Have you got it?” We’re wanting to know right now if they have it or not. It’s that simple question, isn’t it?

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: I was talking to somebody the other day and she looked online to see whether her dress was in stock. And she didn’t get a response from the system. She walked to the store, it wasn’t in stock, and she was so disappointed. And she said, “Why can’t I see online whether my dress is in stock, and know before I go to the shop?” So I’m sure you can relate to stores that still have that issue.

Gordon Atkins: Unfortunately, the stock issue’s always been there for a long time. And using the ways people have for years, it’s always going to be there unfortunately. There is new and upcoming ways, but like you say, for me, the expectations of technology and expectations of retailing now is for that to be available and to be able to find that information, at hand, instantly. The tools are there, so why not have it working perfectly for the customer? Because customer service is key in this world.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Absolutely. And things have changed so much over the past six months. How do you think the pandemic has changed the retail landscape, and what do you think in regards to that? That merchants need to do differently?

Gordon Atkins: I think this year, huge growth in online presence of everybody recently is showing the way that people that would normally go to the High Street to have a look, have been shopping online, have potentially got new trends now where they have enjoyed shopping online. And for me, like you say, the stock calibration between the two needs to be there. If the stock’s not there, is there a chance for them to sort of showroom those items? Have some on a demo rail where people can go, “I just needed to try an 8,” regardless of color, regardless of availability. “I just want to try an 8.” So it worked, it fitted, and I knew that I could go online and buy it. But if it’s not there and that size is not available, then the customer service level goes down, doesn’t it, instantly.

It’s that unhappy feeling. And expectations now by customers are they want to be able to do this. And for me, the experience needs to be there in retail. If you go in your car, driving into a town as such, to the High Street, if you’re on a quick mission, no problem at all. But if you’re looking for something that’s different, you want the help. You want the advice. You want an experience when you go shopping. Especially if you’re with the family. It needs to be an experience for all. And for me the High Street does need to draw some customers back in, shall we say?

Dean Gratton: Do you think the High Street still has a future? We’ve seen a lot of High Street stores close as a consequence of online stores such as Amazon. But now, because of the pandemic, that’s really put the nail in the coffin for the High Street. So what do you think the future of the High Street is?

Gordon Atkins: Don’t get me wrong, for me the High Street is always going to be there. The shopping experience is always going to be there, because some things you just can’t do online. And sometimes you just want to go and try and collect it and get it now quickly, and the High Street is a great way of doing that. And again, for me, some people like that experience. It’s part of, certain parts of your life where you have that experience with the family. You need to go shopping for new school clothes or summer outfits for holidays, or anything like that. It’s great to have a High Street where it’s fun, it’s an experience. Or you want to go bargain hunting or something like that.

For me, it’s always going to be there. It just needs to revive itself, have a bit more of an experience feel. And for me, sometimes missing the mixing the retail and hospitality together really does work. Because if you’re going shopping for a couple of hours to look at several things that you’ve put on a list, you’re going to want a cup of tea or a lunch break or something in between. So making that experience is kind of key.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, that’s so true. I really think now, because of this mind shift in the way that people shop now, they go out. I’ve noticed myself, if I go out now to the High Street, I go out with an agenda in mind. What I need to do rather than spend the whole day browsing. So I think you’re right about this hospitality retail blend where there’s much more an experience for the whole family there. And people can use this kind of focus to draw more out of their time there. With that in mind, the touchless experiences, I feel, have become really important. How do you think that stores can bring more of these in to enhance, if you like, the event aspect of shopping?

Dean Gratton: Well, I suppose that would tie in with the technology, because as well as the pandemic that’s happened … I know that Gordon touched upon the actual need for consumers to go out and get their stuff, to have that experience. I think today, now, we would experiencing customers or shoppers going out, getting what they want and coming back quickly because of social distance and…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. I think that’s true. But I still think that if you go out as a family, you want to have this experience. In a sense, to people that have been in lockdown, it’s nostalgia. Wouldn’t you agree, Gordon?

Gordon Atkins: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Like you say, there’s times at the moment that we rush in, we rush out. But after this, like you say, to get the High Street and everybody back moving again, when everybody’s happy and we can have the way it was together, it makes perfect sense. And like you say, the touchless world that we’re potentially moving into, yes, contactless, everybody started accepting the 45-pound limit in a UK is great because more people have accepted it. More transactions are done quicker. So it’s very good for stores. And like you say, there are other versions of that. Like voice control on a self-checkouts and things like that. And they’re getting facial recognition sometimes will help a store with their marketing, and maybe the videos they play, the music they play, to make it an experience. Because, no offense, is I kept thinking the different generations like different music and can create different atmospheres. So if your store is full of a younger generation that wants something very-now music, then play that now music to get them in the mood to have a good experience.

Dean Gratton: Well, that could be even worse. Because if, thinking ahead as a futurist, I would say what if a young shopper goes into a store and they have the ability to actually stream their music across the in-store entertainment system…

Gordon Atkins: Like you say, touch, touchless, hearing, it all comes together. And if you’re in an experience where you’re retail shopping and you’ve been there an hour and you smell a donut or a croissant cooking in the morning, you’re likely to go sit down for 10 minutes, enjoy the experience, and then carry on shopping.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Mm-hmm (affirmative). That sensory element to the psychology of the shopping experience. Yeah. I’m a real sucker for that. A real sucker for that.

Dean Gratton: Yeah. That’s been going on for such a long time because when you have the restaurants opening their windows and wafting out the food smells and all this, it’s classic.

Gordon Atkins: Is the bakery always at the back of the store?

Dean Gratton: Exactly.

Gordon Atkins: Mm-hmm (affirmative). There’s thousands of different ones, variations and things you can do, but it all actually does help in its own little way. And for me, like you say, customer service and experience are the key things that High Street needs to see. But there is lots of different things that people can be doing, and people will start expecting this because they’re already used to being connected in their own world. When they’re connected at home, they’re taking that technology into store and sometimes it’s nice to have that replication of technology in store. So let the customer buy online, in store, via their normal card payment or something like that, if there’s not the stock available. So, people are willing and looking for that type of environment. It’s about having options at the moment.

Dean Gratton: And with that in mind, do you think the evolution of transactions and how they occur, do you think that’s going to change? I know it’s increased, the contactless has gone up 45 pounds, but do you see that changing where we’ll have security, more security built around the contactless experience, just to maintain that contactless and social distance experience to … do you see that evolving at all?

Gordon Atkins: Yeah, to be honest. The use of phones as payment devices now is growing dramatically. The acceptance is definitely there in a younger generation, obviously. For me, part of the generation of, “Really? I’d rather just carry a card and beep it.” Just one of those things that I’ve always done. But the acceptance is there and it’s coming through strong, to be honest. It’s just using that technology on different people, different times at the moment. We’re still in that middle of that changing period where new methods are out there and it’s just the acceptance. And the people’s understanding, to be honest. For me, people really wouldn’t put it out there if it wasn’t that secure. As long as you’re checking your basic things of, yes, this is a legitimate company, it’s a big company, etc., then use these things that they’re trying to give to you, because sometimes they are easier.

Gordon Atkins: A bit like online banking, isn’t it? Some people stayed away for online banking for a while, then they all of a sudden had to download an app, and before they knew it, they were like, “Well, I’m not going back in the bank anymore. This is much easier.”

Dean Gratton: Yeah, exactly.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: It’s that education, isn’t it, really?

Dean Gratton: Yeah. That was absolutely right. I think it’s about education and confidence in the technology that you’re using on a daily basis. And I think the wider it’s accepted by the masses, the more confident people become with it.

Gordon Atkins: Definitely.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: That the elderly struggle. I know contactless is incredible. I love contactless. Walking through. Things are evolving even more with Amazon. Go and walk in, walk out. But one of the things that is still there, if you like, there as an issue, is the fact that also elderly people go to the shops to talk to people, and actually want somebody to actually serve them and talk to them. And it’s that kind of personal contact, I think, that resonates with people that are on their own an awful lot of the time.

Gordon Atkins: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Customer service is key, regardless of the person. Now I’ve had seen this personally, where elderly come in and they want that experience. They want time to chat. Certain supermarkets look at their beats per minute. We must be at 20 beats per minute. Get the customer and getting the customer out. But certain people who give that level of customer service where they take their time, they talk to the customer, the customer is then much, much happier and not looking for that quick in-out experience. Like you say, you’ve got to cater to different needs at the moment. Some people just want a quick self-service, two items and out, some people want that, let me just pack this correctly. Again, even with scan-as-you-shop nowadays, the acceptance is there. People are willing to scan their own items because it speeds them up at the other end. And even the acceptance of bring your own device or use one of the in-store devices. For me, it’s a great way for people to do a bit more themselves because they’re winning as long as they’re educated and they understand.

Dean Gratton: I suppose it’s trying to achieve that balance. We still have, Sarah mentioned about the older generation, but do you see changing regarding the customer-experienced staff versus non-staff? Or the self-service checkout experience? Do you see always a need for staff service desks or kiosks at the shopping?

Gordon Atkins: At this present time, for me it’s offering everything to the customers because there’s different levels of customers at the moment. To say, everybody must queue up, everybody must go for this process, is a little bit odd in today’s world. Most people would like the choice of, I can go over there with my big trolley, take my time, and load it all, or, I’m just running in quickly, when we’re using the same store. It’s giving the customers options. A bit like some of the larger stores, do I have to walk all the way to the other end of the store just to pay for this one item? Can’t you just scan it on your little handheld, I pay it and then run out this door here quickly? It’s giving that option to be able to give good customer service.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. I think you’re absolutely right, Gordon. It’s about choice, isn’t it? And it’s about making sure that everybody has the best experience that they can have. Not everybody wants that speedy scanner experience. I mean, Amazon Go is great for young people who…

Dean Gratton: And you don’t have to. You simply go into a shop, pick what you want…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. Pick what you want, and you’re off.

Dean Gratton: And you’re off. Don’t even have to stand at a kiosk, pay someone. You just [inaudible] let’s achieve that.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: That would be a miserable experience [inaudible] the person who was stuck in, not seeing a single person, walk in and have nobody to talk to. So I think there’s a time and a place for all these technologies. And I love the way that Gordon explained how we’re balancing this to make sure that we’re not overlooking anybody’s needs. And I think that’s key in the evolution of retail.

Gordon Atkins: I think definitely. The customer will tell you what he wants, or what they want, when they want it. Just listen to the customer. They’re always your main source of income, your main source of what you’re looking for. So listen to them for a minute and work with what they want. Have that flexibility to better go, “Yeah, we can do that. Yeah. We can do that.”

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You’re so right. And in terms of the operations side and improving that, should stores put a higher priority on technologies like RFID? So real-time inventory tracking, we’ve already talked about stock supplies and tracking those and making those better, should it be a higher priority do you think, Gordon?

Gordon Atkins: For me, yes. Like you described earlier, you can easily, within yourself, describe a contact where your friend couldn’t find what they were looking for online, went into the shop and it wasn’t available. Inventories have always been a bit of a nightmare for retailers, keeping them up to date. And for me, yes, when you look at RFID as a total solution, the return on investment is there in such a strong case. And for me, just having that ability to be able to say, “Yeah, we’ve got that item in stock, it’s actually just over there. We scanned it two hours ago.” And people look at these RFID robots that go around scanning items, but then instantly, if you sold an item at 9 o’clock in the morning, somebody at 2 o’clock in the afternoon might be looking online for it, see it’s online, and it might not have been updated it’s there. If the RFID robot’s gone around four times and read that scan and scanned and knows it’s still there and it’s been there all morning, much better results for the customer. Much better.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Absolutely. Yeah. And actually, ultimately for the retailer, because they’re going to be giving a better service in terms of stock availability and avoiding those disappointments from customers.

Gordon Atkins: Definitely. It’s that a simple thing of happy customer, happy retailer, isn’t it?

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah.

Dean Gratton: That’s very analogous to happy wife, happy life.

Gordon Atkins: Well, this is it. We got to keep things simple, haven’t we?

Dean Gratton: We’ve been looking at BlueStar and I noticed that you guys use data. And I just want to know how … Okay, that’s topical of artificial intelligence, but let’s take it from a high-level point of view, because data modeling, data science, machine learning and deep learning and so on, are subsets to artificial intelligence. Do you use BlueStar artificial intelligence for any aspect of your technologies?

Gordon Atkins: Actually, our shelves in our new warehouse, we have been looking at some of these different ways of picking and different things like that. So we are starting to work with different companies and look at different ideas ourselves. Because this technology is coming. Understanding it for different things, even as far as wayfinding and stuff like that. It’s the new technology that’s coming through that makes sense when used in the right way. Don’t get me wrong, you can have a lot of fun with it, but there’s big use cases for it.

Dean Gratton: I suppose that the deep-learning aspects, which I saw about the background to your company, machine learning to adapt the way and to model how consumers and retailers are using your technology, and how they experienced that. And to better develop better algorithms as to how the consumer and the retailer’s experience you as a company.

Gordon Atkins: For me, again, this data is key. And it’s understanding the data. Because the information is just sitting there really, and it’s just getting that data into the right categories, used in the right way and it will tell us so much. But yeah, getting hold of the data is one thing, using it in the right way is something else.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. I think on your website you talk about data and big data and how it’s so valuable. Big data is so much more than data because it’s everything.

Dean Gratton: It’s the new currency.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Well, yeah, the new oil apparently, but yeah, it’s this valuable, valuable asset that is flooding in that you can draw so much from in terms of predictions, in terms of understanding the customers I guess, and evolving your technology and the innovations that you need to serve them. So, we’re coming to the million-dollar question here, which is, how do you work with Intel to help retailers deliver these new technologies and innovation?

Gordon Atkins: Good question. I mean, for me, Intel has always been at the back of everything we’ve done, all the way down to the endpoints, from using Intel for servers all the way down to standard touchscreen terminals. We’re using one-touchscreen terminals, we now offer from 10 inch to 65 inch in stores. There’s so much. Little Intel boxes hidden behind different things that you’re seeing. Behind multi-screens, behind the single screens, interactive and non-interactive. And it really does…

Dean Gratton: Intel Inside.

Gordon Atkins: Intel Inside. Of course. Like you say, we forget all about this when we see and we’re playing with the screens. But like you say, there’s a PC running behind giving it the power, giving the graphics, giving everything it needs, it’s generally Intel powered. For me, Intel’s a great a team player in this. They fully understand our marketplace. And the chipsets we use in a lot of this with different manufacturers gives us great ability. So working with them is key.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. In a sense, Intel’s the unsung hero behind the screens, isn’t it? It’s doing its job, it’s generating all this input for you and working away there. So applause to Intel for that. Can you give us some examples, Gordon, of the merchants that are using these technologies to find the success?

Gordon Atkins: Well, if we just purely talked about the UK, I think you’d find it … realistically you’ll find Intel inside every single self-checkout in supermarkets, and every single checkout being used. So regardless, potentially somebody’s had an Intel, been close to an Intel chip being used every single week they go shopping. It’s as simple as that. When they go into a retail store, realistically anybody that’s running Windows, so that’s realistically from tier one down to a three to four, anybody realistically on the High Street will be running Intel chips because they’re running a Windows world.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. So it’s they’re everywhere around us.

Gordon Atkins: Yep. And that’s from anything that’s computerized. So again, we forget all about our back office and warehousing, everything like that. It’s all, from front to back, it’s all running Intel chips.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. Fantastic stuff. We have skated through these questions, which is wonderful, Gordon, because you’ve answered them so well. Probably a bit too well because we’ve got lots of time. So with that in mind, is there anything else you’d like to talk about?

Gordon Atkins: Like you say, for me we are still in that middle change. Even pre-COVID. I’ve done a few presentations to some high-end retailers last year and they asked me to sit down and look at their sort of ideas. Where are we now? If they were changing things, what would they change? And yeah, I looked at it and said, “We still are and still will be for quite some time, in that middle. Certain, I hate to say generations, but certain younger generations being used to things and wanting things and older generations accepting things and understanding things.” So like you say, we’re still having some people wanting to go around, chat, with a trolley, fill it up, put things onto a belt, have those conversations. We’ve got to cover the self-service because people want to do it themselves.

Gordon Atkins: We’ve got to cover that mobile pulse way, because somebody might just want one item, see queues in both areas and go, “I’ve got one item.” Beep, beep. Scan, scan. Payment done. Out the door. So it’s just giving everybody opportunities. And it’s quite strange, I’ve always remembered the Christmas tree one. For a big retailer to sell Christmas trees outside always used to be, how do we get a till point all the way outside? It’s got to be one of our normal tills. So on and so forth. Where, in today’s world, you can grab a payment device, grab a handheld reader, and send somebody outside in an hour.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. That’s fantastic, isn’t it? Yeah. When you think about how things used to be. One of my bugbears, I don’t know if this has happened to you, Gordon, but it’s when you’ve got two items in your basket and you are standing behind this massive basket, and there’s no one with just a few items.

Gordon Atkins: We’ve all been there, I think. When you look down the aisle and think, “Oh, I just got two items. I just want to be quick.” Give the customers the options

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: And I always say, if I’m in front of somebody and they come along and they’ve just got one thing or two things or a small amount, just, “Go ahead.” And I suppose that the self-service, and as you say, this has revolutionized the speed in which these people can actually think, “Yeah, I’ve got my stuff, I can go.” In this very busy world in which we live, and especially if you are limited on time what with things like the pandemic where you have to be very focused on what you’re doing while you’re out, and time restrictions on getting back and whatever…

Gordon Atkins: Like you say, in this day and age, things don’t have to be big, all-singing, all-dancing, weighing everything. They’ve shown that self-service can be … as human beings we can be trusted with it, generally. And all we need to do is scan a couple of things, accept the payment and walk out the door. Now I can do that on a little tiny 7-inch touchscreen and have lots of these available. So there’s lots of ways of doing it, isn’t it? And there’s always peak times that you want to wheel out extra things at certain times because there’s so many people, or speed things up. There’s many, many different ways. But for me, about catering what’s best for your customer because they’re always the key.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: And actually, with that in mind, with the lunch break customers who are all coming out from the offices, is there a need for sort of greater self-service during certain hours? I mean, the self-service checkouts are normally, when I go at lunchtime, are also quite busy. And there’s a queue and there’s people explaining and then something doesn’t get scanned properly. Is there a need, do you think, for better organization over amounts of self-service technology at certain times of the day, how it works and how it’s planned? It just seems a bit haphazard sometimes.

Gordon Atkins: Yes, unfortunately, but then that’s I think down to sheer numbers of acceptance for me. I think you’ll find most people, most large stores now, are actually still understanding self-service technology and growing it themselves. I think, to be honest, our local Sainsbury’s has had even more self-service booths put in recently, and again, already, a bit like the M25, you give it a fourth lane and it will fill up quickly.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: That’s such a great analogy. That’s such a great analogy. I love that.

Gordon Atkins: But it’s a bit like the one, if you build it, they will come. If it’s there and it’s quicker, people will use it.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. That’s brilliant.

Dean Gratton: I just want to go off topic somewhat and talk about what we’ve discussed the other day. And that was the Internet of Things and Near Field Communications and RFID. So Near Field Communications and RFID, I mentioned to you that RFID was probably … it wasn’t probably, it was, the launch for this guy, Kevin Ashton, who conceived Internet of Things. And he worked at MIT and he was developing tracking systems for products and whatnot, in warehouses and retail and so on, using RFID. Do you think IoT for you, as a business, works?

Gordon Atkins: Yeah, it totally does. Totally does. If we just talk about RFID for a moment alone. Say for instance, I’m a retailer and I have sort of a basket environment where the customers come up with 10 things in the basket. If I’m using barcode, I have to find 10 barcodes, position 10 barcodes, put 10 barcodes in front of a something. Now the sheer fact of moving my hand across it, scanning all 10, and carrying on with the transaction, speeds up the whole thing for the customer and the retailer. So for me, it’s crazy little things. When you look at RFID as a whole, can I scan it? Can I have a robot going around scanning every single item, knowing where it is? Is my loss prevention being covered because I can track items better? Can I speed things up at my till point?

So it’s just a quick scan of items rather than each and every single item being found. And for me, acceptance of that technology is coming because it speeds everything up and it makes it more accurate at the same time. Yes, historically there’s always been a cost to it. But these costs have dramatically come down as the whole world accepts RFID and NFC more and more.

I mentioned the other day, years ago when I went through the change in access control from magnetic car technology, physically swiping that car through the system, to an RFID technology where it’s just tap the card and open the door, that was a quick, swift, easy acceptance. It’s just the rest has to follow. For me, it’s making people’s lives easier in this day and age with technology is easily done. It’s just understanding and accepting it.

Dean Gratton: Yeah. And I suppose the evolution to NFC and RFID, you talked about those magnetic strips and opening doors, for example. The next step in that would be to have the Star Trek-like doors, where you approach the doors and they open. Not because the movement, but they recognize you. Because if you need to use your car to get in because you’re authorized to get in, then I think that would be a great … though, maybe there’s a problem with that because…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: No, you’re talking about having your phone in your pocket and it recognizing that you’ve walked up to the door…

Dean Gratton: Yeah. But that’s what RFID [inaudible] that would require something like Bluetooth as a longer distance. Or even facial recognition for the door to actually recognize you, to say, “Ah, I know who you are. I’ll open the door for you.”

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: And would the door make the Star Trek sound?

Dean Gratton: That’d be a bonus.

Gordon Atkins: That would be key, to be honest.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: [inaudible 00:30:52]

Dean Gratton: There’s no point in having it…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Without the sound.

Dean Gratton: Without the sound.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. I think we’re onto something here. We should develop this.

Dean Gratton: Got it. Let’s patent it now.

Gordon Atkins: Well, I was just about to say, this is absolutely great because you answer your own questions, guys. It’s absolutely superb. Like you say, the technology is there. There is actually something called a UHF, Ultra High Frequency, which they use in warehousing and things like that. It gives them a longer read rate. Because if you just picked on normal RFID, like a MIFARE card or something like that, you’ve got inches read rate. But if you picked on UHF, in theory it’s used for, say for instance, a pallet on a forklift truck driving through a warehouse door. That’s how it could be used. And like you say, that’s only recognizing a serial number, populating it onto a database. What that does instantly would then just give a door access, instant rewards to go, “Right. That’s been populated at this point. Let’s open that door.” So the technology’s there, not hard at all to put it together.

That is coming. Because why couldn’t the door know that I’m walking down the corridor, and if it’s the only door that’s there, I’m within the security parameters, open the door for me. Be so kind, would you? Like you say, there’s lots of different ways of doing it, radio frequency is a great way of doing it because it’s physically there. Even with facial recognition nowadays, it’s getting so much better and we’re linking it to different types of marketing via interactive screens to draw people in and things like that. So yeah. Why wouldn’t we use this technology for easier and greater things to make our lives better and quicker and easier so we can enjoy more?

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. Absolutely. And there’s other, of course there’s things like disabilities, anything that would mean that you can’t easily get to your phone, to get there to show that would recognize you. Also I think you were judging, Dean you were judging the NFC awards this year. And I think there was an actual campus or college campus where students could just gain entry through their phones by having registered. Which means safety for the students and no more fumbling for their phones to try and hold them up, they can actually get straight into their rooms. So it’s safety aspects. As you say, Gordon, it’s all sorts of things that it expands out to the larger community and the world as a whole.

Gordon Atkins: Definitely. That’s great to hear as well, because the second they’ve got it on their phone, they can have it on their watch. So again, it’s just making life simpler, isn’t it?

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It’s just about making life easier, making experiences better for everybody.

Dean Gratton: It needs to be innocuous, seamless and transparent to whoever’s using the technology.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, absolutely. In terms of loss prevention, can you give us an example of how RFID might assist in inventory tracking?

Gordon Atkins: Yeah, sure. One of the ones I use quite a bit is, RFID technology, each chip has its own unique serial number so that you’re able to track everything under a batch, but every individual item within that batch. And there’s a retailer that found it was losing a certain amount in a certain area. And because they’re actually able to track each RFID chip and know which serial number moves where in the building and what goes on with it, they were actually able to work out their loss prevention. The items were never actually leaving the store. People were actually being so bold to come in, collect the items from the floor level, put it straight into a bag, go straight upstairs to level two where the refunds were and ask for a refund with no receipts.

Dean Gratton: How do they do this?

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: That’s incredible.

Dean Gratton: That’s incredible. How do they know this?

Gordon Atkins: Yeah, it’s crazy when you hear it. Because each one had a unique serial number and they were able to keep constant tracking of the tags and the actual items where they were, they realized the items never left their store. They didn’t go to the front. They went up the escalator into this department and then arrived on the till point. So it’s just another form of loss prevention. Again, that whole thing could be tracked from the warehouse, all the way through. So when certain serial numbers go missing in batches, if it’s recorded all the way through, you’ll physically know without opening boxes, that item was in there at that point, and not in there at that point.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. That’s actually [inaudible], isn’t it? And obviously people aren’t aware of this, but of course they will be because [crosstalk].

Dean Gratton: There would be a whole logistics and supply chain across all of this. Because if we have goods coming from, say, Switzerland, arriving into Brussels, then surely those goods will be tracked and known. And when they’re delivered at the warehouse, then there’ll be traceability and trackability in those products. So they should be known at any place and time where they are.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. And then somebody goes to try and take one of them, who of course will be, “It was here. It was here.” Which is exactly what Gordon was saying. It’s a brilliant example. Fantastic.

Gordon Atkins: Having that unique serial number for each item gives you true trackability all the way through. It’s like everything, we’re always saying we need to be connected in our world. What about everything else? Let’s connect everything else into our world so everything is connected.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. That’s great. Yeah. Just total connectivity where everything is traceable. Everything is trackable. I wish my Chihuahuas were, because they are everywhere right now.

Gordon Atkins: I feel your pain with my two beagles. They’re never where you expect, are they?

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Oh, I love beagles. I grew up with a beagle. Billy. Oh, I miss Billy. Love beagles. The most adorable dogs ever. But now we have Chihuahuas. We’ve downsized. Yeah. Happy days. Absolutely. We love our dogs. We love our dogs.

Gordon Atkins: Oh, definitely. Wouldn’t be without them.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Oh, no, no, no. And when we’re in the UK, we must meet up and have a glass together.

Gordon Atkins: Yeah, definitely. Look forward to that.

Sarah Gratton: When all these times are behind us. Absolutely.

Dean Gratton: Yeah, definitely. We should meet up…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, definitely.

Dean Gratton: And meet face to face.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: And introduce our Chihuahua. Well, Walter is my little man at the moment. He’s the plucky one. Introduce him to your beagles. What are their names?

Gordon Atkins: Mine are Alfie and Roxy.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Alfie and Roxy. Happy days.

Gordon Atkins: They’re getting on a little bit now, but it’d be great to meet you guys and have a good chat.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: That would be wonderful.

Dean Gratton: Thank you ever so much, Gordon, for taking the time today, and we look forward to meeting you face to face. But until next time.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, thanks so much. Until next time.

Gordon Atkins: No worries. Thanks, everyone. Great to speak to you.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: And that’s it. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode.

Dean Gratton: And if you’ve enjoyed this podcast, you can find out more about retail innovation at insight.tech.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: On behalf of Intel, this has been Sarah Jane.

Dean Gratton: And Dean Gratton. Until next time.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Until next time.

[podcast player]

The pandemic has completely upended the ways merchants engage their customers. Retail technology has moved to the forefront, as consumers rely more than ever on mobile apps and self-service checkouts to execute their shopping journey.

How should retailers respond to these changing circumstances? Find out in this conversation between technology power couple Sarah-Jayne and Dean Gratton, and experts from Box Technologies—a leader in customer engagement that works with brands such as Sainsbury’s, HSBC, Superdry, and Pizza Hut.

You will discover:

• How self-service technology is being integrated with AI
• Ways retailers can cut equipment servicing costs with machine learning
• What digital signage can do to create an extraordinary customer experience

Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, SoundCloud, and iHeartRadio, the Retail Tech Chat is a limited-run podcast focused on the recovery of the retail and hospitality sector. Subscribe now so you don’t miss an episode!

 

(Note: Box Technologies is a subsidiary of FLYTECH, a Member of the Intel^® IoT Solutions Alliance.)

 

Transcript

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Welcome to the Retail Check Chat, sponsored by Intel. I’m Sarah-Jayne Gratton.

Dean Gratton: And I’m Dean Gratton.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Together, we explore the world of technology and the ways it’s reshaping our lives.

Dean Gratton: Okay. So in this podcast series, we are taking a new journey into retail innovation with Intel and its partners.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Today, we’re talking to James Patterson and Leonard Gilbert-Wines from Box Technologies. They’re leaders in customer engagement and they work with brands such as Sainsbury’s, HSBC, Superdry, and Pizza Hut. Hi, James. Hi, Leonard. Great to have you here.

Leonard Gilbert-Wines: Hi, both.

James Patterson: Hey, guys. Fantastic. Thank you for the opportunity to join the podcast. We’re really excited about delving into some technology discussions with you guys. So thank you for having me.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Absolutely.

Dean Gratton: That’s weird because I’m going to kick off with James, actually, I’ll ask you. What does Box do and what is your role? What do you, in fact?

James Patterson: Yeah. What do I do? So my role at Box Technologies, so I’m the strategic sales and marketing director. So really, from my perspective, it’s obviously a very customer-facing role. So I look after some of our largest accounts and so our largest partners as well. So we work with end users but a lot of software partners as well. And really, what does Box Technologies do? So you guys introduced it fantastically for us. So we’re a leader in technology solutions into the retail, hospitality, and gaming sector.

So some of the technologies, which obviously we want to discuss with you guys today, there’s some really cutting-edge things around self-service technology with the integration of AI. But we also have been working in that self-service space as a business for sort of 20 years, so much before McDonald’s had rolled out order points across all of their global businesses. Then also, the different areas such as digital signage, which is a huge, huge growth area for us. Everyone’s looking at how they can stand out on the High Street and part of that digital transformation program…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Sorry to interrupt, James. I guess on the self-service side, these days self-service has never been more prevalent, has it, with what’s going on in the world?

James Patterson: Oh, I know. It’s fascinating. One of the things which, when the whole COVID thing took over, we sat down as a team and myself, Leonard, and the other directors at the business, and we thought, “COVID. Are customers, are consumers, are they going to be afraid to interact with touchscreens that have been shared with other people?” From our point of view, we were thinking, “Wow. This could be a big, big technology shift.” But we were working in the UK with even some of the essential retailers which stayed open during lockdown and they were running self-checkouts, self-service trials. It was really interesting on the retail side of things. There was no impact at all. So people were still really happy to go into stores and use express self-checkout lanes to complete their transactions and get out and complete the transaction as quick as possible.

Then interestingly, on the hospitality side of our business, I mentioned McDonald’s earlier, those types of order points, we had some pilots in play with some of the largest restaurant chains in the UK. COVID literally totally shifted that whole piece of technology. So self-service has been skipped in some scenarios and replaced with order your own, bring your own device. So what we’re seeing now with a lot of customers is they’ve rapidly deployed either app-faced ordering systems or even Wi-Fi connected ordering systems. So when you go into their restaurants, you join the Wi-Fi, it brings up an order screen and then you can order, as the consumer, whatever you want on your own device. So yeah, it’s been one hell of a year when it comes to self-service and the different changes and trends that we’ve seen.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, huge, huge changes across the industry. Yeah. I mean, Leonard…

Dean Gratton: Yeah, Leonard, we forgot about you.

Leonard Gilbert-Wines: Hi, how’re you doing?

Dean Gratton: What do you do?

James Patterson: Sorry, Leonard.

Leonard Gilbert-Wines: What do I do? I have the pleasure of working in our business, but in a role which gives me the opportunity to listen and interact with our retailers, our hospitality, but also our partners, the guys who write the software, the code that is surfaced on these kiosks, on those Wi-Fi order quotes and on traditional POS devices. So I do cover quite a lot of miles. But I’m in the middle of all this technology and trying to solutionize it to bring it to market. So one day I’m I’m looking at ways to keep touchscreens safe and clean, whether that’s UV, whether that’s compliance, so that the managers or the section coordinators within these organizations can look, at a glance, on a device whether these devices have been cleaned to the next day specifying maybe a lottery machine or some Wi-Fi technology.

Dean Gratton: So I’m aware that Box positions itself as a leader in customer experience and engagement. I mean, what does that mean to you and what are the key factors in treating excellent engagements?

James Patterson: I really think depending on the arena we’re working in, it means different things. So if we take gaming as an example, customer engagement when you’re in a gaming environment, whether it’s a casino, or whether it’s a bookmakers, whether you’re in a bingo hall, as an example, they’ve all got different requirements for customer engagement. A bingo hall, as an example, traditionally we all have that picture in our mind of going in there and everyone’s got a piece of paper with their different rows and lines on it. That’s all digital now. That’s all delivered via mobile devices. But on those mobile devices, it’s not just your game of bingo, you can order your drinks to the table and your food and all of those sorts of things. So that’s how they engage within a bingo hall, which can be very different to one of the high-end retailers we’re working with.

James Patterson: I think one of the best examples personally I’ve seen and also Box has been heavily involved in is we work with a brand globally called Aurum Holdings, which one of the sub-brands within there is Watches of Switzerland. So it’s very, very high-end jewelry and watches fundamentally. When I say high-end, these watches, some of them are a million pound plus.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Wow.

James Patterson: It’s a certain customer which buys them. But their store, and one example is, there’s a great case study actually on our website, which is 155 Regent Street. That was a flagship store that we worked on with Watches of Switzerland. I think it was five or six different stories. The bottom floor was, I’m not even going to call them affordable, but the entry-level brands all the way up to your fifth, sixth level floor, which was invitation only and VIP treatment. The reality is they’ve got a store in London, it’s going to be on Regent Street. Our customer base is going to be heavily populated with tourists from certain geographies around the world: China, Russia, some of the Arabic nations as well.

So they sat with us and went, “Okay, so how can we work our digital content, our digital experience, about targeting these customers?” One of the disadvantages is language barrier. So we did something. They’ve got numerous screens throughout the store and throughout the different levels within the store. There’s a concierge, or a number of concierges, and they have tablet devices. They can control every single one of those screens with the language. So you may have a group of Chinese customers that come in and they can change that content on level two all to be in Mandarin, as an example. So little things like that, really tailoring that customer experience.

Another great thing, sort of a technology win for us actually with that store, was we actually created a totally custom touchscreen, which was in the basement of this store. At one point, this was going back a couple of years ago, it was the largest interactive touchscreen in Europe. There’s a reason behind why we did this and why the customer wanted it, actually, because it was a great piece of engagement, as in the tool for it. It really was there to basically take the, what they perceived, potential time wasters, to engage them on some technology. Guys who were going in there to buy expensive watches aren’t really going to go up to a large touchscreen and start having a play, Minority Report style. They’re going to sit down, they want to understand information, working with the really informative staff in there.

So they actually created this touchscreen where they would purposely go and get groups of people and say, “Oh, do you want to come and interact with this screen? We can show you all these different videos,” to then isolate the customers which were going to spend the money and obviously to give them that VIP treatment. So yeah, I think that’s a great example, if that answers the question.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, it does. Moving on from that, in terms of digital transformation, you mention the movie Minority Report, which I know is still flying around at the moment and with the way that those augmented reality, the way that interaction in the High Street is really taking on these days, as you say, it’s a whole new world. I mean, how do you think these technologies are changing the way that retailers and, for example, the hospitality markets, are doing business?

Leonard Gilbert-Wines: Yeah. I can answer in probably the way you’re not expecting and that is, there are technologies which are available to us that we have chosen not to productize because it may be too much of a shift for the general public. VR and AR, virtual reality and augmented reality is kind of on the…

Dean Gratton: They have been around for some time.

Leonard Gilbert-Wines: Yeah, is on the border because there is that vulnerability that someone may feel by having their vision impaired in a public place. So you do need a very specific setting for that immersion and…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Is that also a degree of subtlety as well in the way that it’s delivered?

Leonard Gilbert-Wines: Yeah. But we have produced similar examples with digital signage and having trigger points with maybe perfume bottles. You pick up certain scents and then the visuals on the screen in front of you change depending on which scents and which bottles and which combinations you lift up. So, that’s what came to mind when you asked the question there. I’ll hand over to James for your example.

James Patterson: Yeah. I think the Minority Report, the thing for me, I remember when I first watched that film and I can’t remember when it came out, maybe 10 years ago or something, and I was like, “Wow. This is a thing of the future.” And then…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. Dean and I were watching it and thinking, “This isn’t going to happen.” And it’s here, isn’t it? It’s here!

Dean Gratton: [crosstalk]

James Patterson: And that’s the thing…

Dean Gratton: … in terms of the modality.

Leonard Gilbert-Wines: Yeah.

James Patterson: We did a big project in the UK recently with Pizza Hut. It was around optimizing their kitchens. The sort of big tagline around it was “Deliver pizza.” I think it was “faster, hotter and smarter.” It’s all about giving that better customer experience so when you’re delivering a pizza, making sure it arrives hot, not cold, etc. But anyway, going back to the Minority Report thing. In their kitchens now, they installed a capacity of touchscreens where they now have a guy in the kitchen who, he zooms in on this interactive map to find the local drivers on their mopeds to call one back to make sure he can come and get his pizza and stuff in time.

It’s not that exciting, but that’s a real-life example where this type of interactive touch technology is being used in a Pizza Hut delivery site. We wouldn’t have guessed that 10 years ago when Minority Report came out, for sure. It does, it just shows you how quickly it moves on, doesn’t it? I think we as consumers, the way that we interact and consume technology now, it plays the biggest role in that, right? I’ve sat here with my smartphone in hand and everything you can do on that device now, including touch, is just, we wouldn’t have thought that 10 years ago, for sure.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: It’s just amazing how things have just evolved and moved on.

Dean Gratton: And so quickly as well.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yes.

Dean Gratton: Yeah, what’s next in the new Box?

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: It’s a whole new world of innovation or, well, where innovation is actually taking its stance and making strides forwards, whereas perhaps this time last year, we wouldn’t have envisioned where it would be today. So with that in mind, I have to ask you guys, how do you work with Intel to help retailers deliver these cutting-edge technologies?

James Patterson: Yeah, literally, I was just going to mention that, actually. So yeah, so Box is the European entity of a much larger sort of technology group, which is called Flytech Technology. But Intel, by far, are our biggest technology partner. We sell hundreds of thousands of Intel-based products a year. But also, we work very, very closely with the guys, locally and on a global scale, looking at how we can innovate within our marketplaces. I think one example which, Leonard, you were obviously heavily involved in with the guys locally at Intel. There’s been a big demand from our customers over the years, in retail specifically, to mobilize the point-of-sale journey.

So as an example, if you’re in a fashion or a department store, the ability to go on an assisted selling journey with that customer throughout the store and then complete the transaction, our customers have been talking about it probably for seven or eight years. There’s always been some real technology limitations to it. One of the big ones being was that whenever you undocked, let’s take that as the example, whenever you undocked this POS tablet device, it was always basically one-to-one paired. So you’d start at that customer journey, but this might be on floors, if you’re in a department store. It might be one to three. But then you’d always have to return back to that same docking station to complete the transaction, which just totally vetoed the whole customer experience and what you’re trying to achieve.

So we took that as a challenge. Leonard, it’s probably worth saying how you worked with the guys at Intel locally to come up with a solution and some technology which we’re actually just bringing to market next month, which is a first as far as we’re aware in that sort of retail space. So yeah, Leonard, do you mind just giving the technical side, if that’s all right?

Leonard Gilbert-Wines: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Dean Gratton: The technical bit, is it? We’ll be back in a minute.

Leonard Gilbert-Wines: So we’re aware of the wireless technologies Intel’s brought to the office. So there’s WiDi and WiGig. This allows you to place your laptop down on a desk and you’re instantly connected to your monitor, to your printer, your mouse, your keyboard, any other peripherals. There’s no wires, essentially. We wanted to bring this to retail. But an office environment, where you’re talking, you’re working in maybe one or two meters around a desk, is very different to a retail environment where even the structure of the building you have many customers with their Bluetooth and Wi-Fi, a lot of radio, a lot of noise there.

So we couldn’t lean on those existing technologies. So we actually worked closely with Intel’s innovation division in Swindon in the UK and we tested many different solutions. We actually landed on something which passed the test, essentially. Our test was to take the solution to a motorway service station, in the UK we call them motorway service stations, which are the busiest. These are areas where people stop off the freeway, off the motorway, for their coffee. But they’re also logging onto the Wi-Fi, they’re checking… So it’s a very busy, noisy environment.

The task was to have a tablet, undock that tablet but maintain the ports, the connected devices that are connected to the hub, so the retail software doesn’t have a break. There’s no disconnection. So it’s a seamless transition from physically connected to connected over Wi-Fi. We achieved that using firmware level optimizations and also drivers which we leveraged as well as a custom EC chip within the hub which hosts our Wi-Fi connectivity.

Dean Gratton: You developed the software there on-site with your guys?

Leonard Gilbert-Wines: We developed the concept and then the brief went into our R&D within Taiwan, which came out with the concept which we tested, as I said, in the real-world environment. We’ve kept tuning and tuning and getting feedback from our partners to the point where we’re ready to launch the product in the next couple of months.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Also, it’s all about mobility and connectivity within the hospitality industry, I guess.

Leonard Gilbert-Wines: It is. It is. The challenge set to us, as James said, is that, again, if you have a tablet docked and you undock it, you lose connectivity. Those comports or USB connections disappear. So you lose the scanner, you lose the printer, you lose any other peripheral you’re connected to. POS software traditionally does not like that. It will crash and you have to reboot the device to bring them back. So we have to make that a seamless connection.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Okay.

James Patterson: I think any listeners that have worked in this space will understand probably very, very well. They’ll be like, “Okay, yeah, we know that technical challenge.” It’s been on the radar for a while. So it’s great to work with Intel to solve it. I think another recent example we’ve been collaborating with Intel is around Intel’s OpenVINO platform and, again, within the Flytech group, we’ve got a sister company called Berry AI, which as it says in the brand name, they’re a computer vision AI business. We work very, very closely with those guys.

One of the solutions we came up with as a collaboration was around automating the experience within a post office, as an example. People don’t go to post offices as much as they once did. But when you typically do go there now, you end up waiting in a queue. I don’t know, guys, Sarah, Dean, if that’s your last experience, but I know it is for me personally. I arrived and I thought, “Wow, I know why I don’t come here anymore, because I don’t like waiting.”

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, it’s just, oh, it’s snail pace. Working primarily sort of online where I will do things and it’s all kind of need it, click it, get it. It was stepping back in time. It was quite depressing. It was a bit Last of the Summer Wine-esque.

James Patterson: Yeah, I think that’s a fair assumption. Part of the challenge there for any postal company across the world is that there’s still a very manual human interaction process between saying, “I’ve got this parcel in my hands. What size is it? What weight is it?” which means, “This is how much I need to pay for, if it’s a letter, it’s a stamp. This is how much I need to pay for shipping.” It’s a process which, if it takes five minutes per customer and you’ve got five people in your queue, that’s 25 minutes. We’re not going to wait as consumers now for 25 minutes…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Exactly.

James Patterson: … in a shop. That just doesn’t happen. Yeah. So what we’ve created is basically a self-service kiosk with integrated AI, which basically takes out that requirement for this human interaction. So the AI algorithm and also obviously the camera in the sense of Intel, we have a platform which you can put any letter. There’s different sizes of these kiosks, depending on the parcel size, but let’s take the one version. So this is any letter and any parcel which is up to a large shoebox size of any material as well, because that’s a key thing as well. Sometimes letters are paper, cardboard. Packages could be different types of plastic.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah.

James Patterson: We take any of those parcels or letters, you place it on our kiosk platform and then within seconds the camera, the AI, kicks into place and comes up on the screen and says, “By the way, Sarah, you owe us 50p to send this parcel. Please tap your card. We’ll print you off a label. Stick your label on your parcel and just please put it in that dispatch bin over there.” And you’ve cut down that process, which at minimum, I’m probably being cautious here when I say five minutes. You’ve cut down that process to 20, 30 seconds.

Leonard Gilbert-Wines: That is a great example of leveraging that computer vision with OpenVINO, pairing with a weigh scale and then essentially just giving a location for a customer to place that parcel and then giving them those options, “Do you want silver service, next day, three-day service?” Prints a ticket. It allows the counter, then, to spend the time for maybe checking my passport application, insurance documents. They’re the skills which the members of staff want to spend time with the customers for those…

James Patterson: [crosstalk].

Leonard Gilbert-Wines: … extra services.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, yeah.

James Patterson: That’s a great point. I think that’s a great point just to sort of wrap that bit up on the postal side of things. Post offices now, with their retail spaces, to survive, they don’t make much money on returning parcels or letters. That’s just the service that they provide. Where they make the money is things like holiday insurance, passport returns, all of those services which they offer to the customers. In the UK, it’s expensive. They’ll probably offer 150 different services, too, but they’re the ones which take human interaction and it’s like you said, it frees those people to make those profitable service engagements.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, yeah.

Leonard Gilbert-Wines: Then just channel that successful eBay-er with 50 parcels to the kiosk.

James Patterson: Yeah.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yep, yep.

Dean Gratton: You touch upon artificial intelligence, James, and that’s something I want to touch upon with you. Of course, it’s enduring a load of hyperbole at the moment because it’s been exaggerated as being bloated out of all proportion. But in terms of Box, what does artificial intelligence mean for you?

James Patterson: Yeah, I think when we look at any technology, and I think let’s bring AI into the mix as well, we always start off with: What is the problem we’re trying to solve? And can we use elements of our technology suite to help solve that problem, not just for technology’s sake? So I think the AI piece, for us, those two examples that we’ve used, it’s about using computer vision and a camera combination technology to automate a process that improves the customer experience, is probably how I would summarize that.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Do you see your use of AI learning from what it’s doing and evolving for consumers?

James Patterson: 100%. I think like going to the postal side of things, it sounds really simple to be able to measure any parcel with any type of material. That sounds like we just tick a box. But there’s a lot of work our teams have to go into. Train the algorithm, go through that process of understanding that, “Okay, I have a letter. This is paper material. This is a shoebox and this is made out of cardboard.” So I think 100%, there’s a lot of energy. Leonard, you could probably touch on the technicalities. That’s definitely Leonard’s forte. Then again…

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, I think that…

Leonard Gilbert-Wines: Yeah. I think when we talk about AI, we also put in there machine learning and deep learning. And as well the customer experience, the retailer also gets the efficiencies and accuracies out of the technology. So instead of using a tape measure for the customer to manually type in the dimensions and you would want to err on the side of smaller to get a better price, they actually get an accurate dimension there with the camera, which is trained.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: In terms of a society in general’s special needs, I know when I queued, again, we talked about when I queued at the post office on that particular day, I saw an awful lot of elderly people with special needs worrying about how they were going to handle their packages, who was going to help them. To have something where, basically, everything was done for them through technology, yes, it might be a little bit scary for them, but I think, ultimately, it’s a great enabler.

James Patterson: Definitely. What we say to any of our customers which are going on pilots or even adopting this type of technology at scale, it’s not just about the technology. You have to go through an implementation process as a business with your customers.

Leonard Gilbert-Wines: Absolutely.

James Patterson: I think one of the biggest shifts that we saw in our core markets was when supermarkets suddenly decided that they were going to introduce self-checkouts. Everyone stayed, I was one of them. I would literally avoid them like the plague. It was like, “Wow, what is that? What is that thing?” Then suddenly supermarkets went, “Okay. Initially, what we’re going to do is we’re going to put a couple of people around the technology. We’ll show you how to use it.” Then human beings are quite adaptable, right? Once we’ve seen and once we’ve done something once, twice, three times, it becomes second nature and then we adopt it. So yeah, I think it’s as much about the technology but how you implement that and how you take your customers, whether they’re elderly, whatever the generation, really, take them on that journey. Technology, just put it out in isolation, never has the success which people hope it will.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah, because education is so important, I think. We’re not all digitally knowledgeable.

Dean Gratton: True, that.

Leonard Gilbert-Wines: The technology isn’t everything. People still do still expect that human touch and I can give an example with one of our self-checkout trials. One of the regular customers, elderly lady, she did come in essentially crying because she’s saying, “This is my one interaction a week, talking to Mavis over here. Don’t allow her to lose her job.” So there is a balance around not making our environments clean and cold and blue and actually still having that human touch. I think that’s where technology allows that. It does allow us to release resources to give that better interaction and experience.

James Patterson: That’s important for the elderly, yeah.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: So important, and actually, you probably all know as well, I think I heard somewhere that people, the elderly, will actually go to a supermarket not necessarily to buy anything, just to have a conversation.

Leonard Gilbert-Wines: Mm-hmm (affirmative). So I think as well as technology being scary for the elderly, we’re all getting older and we have got an upside-down triangle in the UK as a population tree. So there will be, in the next 20 to 30 years, a lot more elderly people than there are younger people. So we will be leveraging that technology and AI. But also, I can’t wait until my car can act as my payment gateway when I’m going through a drive-through. Why leaning out to tap a payment device on a stick? I want just the presence of my vehicle to authorize a transaction. I think that is very close. I’m not sure.

Dean Gratton: I think so.

Leonard Gilbert-Wines: Tesla’s working on that right now.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: The use of Intel, we’ve talked about the post delay, iKiosk. Also, let’s talk about how you’re using it in retail in terms of Intel technology on a daily basis for retail organizations.

James Patterson: Yeah. I think one of the most exciting things that, to be honest, I’ve personally ever been involved in from a technology perspective was, yeah, we took a mission as a business a couple of years ago after customer demand, really, where if you have a store, so whether you’re a retailer, whether you’re a restaurant, whether you’re a bank, whether you’re a gaming business, the way that service is delivered to those stores hasn’t innovated for years. What I mean by that is there is still so much human interaction.

So, if I play out a scenario here. So let’s take a said supermarket. So said supermarket has all of these devices, all of these computer devices, whether they’re till points, whether they’re mobility tablets, whether they’re digital signage screens, whether they’re back-office workstations. Now, any of this computer device, they’ve got thousands of these across their estate. Currently, a lot of them don’t have a single view, a basic form, of all of their connected devices. So when something goes wrong, so supermarket one, let’s say till point one has an issue, the current process is someone in that store has to, one, notice that there’s a problem and then they’ll ring up their service desk and they’ll say, “Till one in London Mayfair store, we have a problem.” There’s a bit of human interaction, a bit of triaging: “Let’s go through these five steps. Let’s see whether we can fix it.”

Then they can’t fix it over the phone, so then they migrate to, “Okay. We need to send an engineer to that site.” So they then log a call with the engineering team. They then put a part in their van and they drive to the store and fix it. That is the process which, like I said, has been carried out for a long period of time. The reality is, just throwing more people at it, one, adds cost to the service, which in this current climate, everyone is looking at how they can save costs. But also there’s no use of technology there, really. How can we use technology to improve this?

So we basically took a mantra which was totally out of our markets, really. We looked at the automated space and we went, “Okay, so we get into our cars each day and we are totally connected.” If my left brake pad, if that’s reached its limit, I get a pop-up on my dashboard which says, “You need to go and see the local garage.” If my oil’s running low, if my tire pressure is not what it needs to be, all this information is proactively presented to me. So totally polar opposites to artificial markets, and if something goes wrong within a store environment, there has to be that human intervention.

So we were looking in January at a software application, which fundamentally converges those two worlds. Some of the features within the software, we discussed about AI earlier, so there’s going to be an AI feature within there, which it will be continuously monitoring the supermarket’s connected estate. Before there’s any human intervention, if it notices that something’s wrong, let’s just take an example, till one’s screen’s not turning on for whatever reason, before the human intervention, there’ll be a number of steps that the actual application will go through to try and fix that problem. Obviously, with machine learning over a period of time, what it will do, it would start to prioritize those steps depending on what are the common trends which the application sees within that particular retailer. So, that’s one side of it.

Also, taking it further sort of beyond that is looking at predictive analytics. So every computer device, whether it’s a piece of memory, an SSD, a touchscreen, all of these things, they all have a what we refer to as an MTBF figure, a mean time before failure. We’re putting that data together in our system and then basically what we can then do is rather than when something goes wrong, there’ll be alerting parts of the system which will say, “Okay, actually, till number one within Piccadilly store, that’s coming within 5% of its recommended service life. Do you want to swap that out?” as an example.

The other part which it brings, because everything is connected, is life cycle management of those devices. We can then look at, if you took a traditional supermarket, they may have 10 rows of tills. Row one to three are probably used 75% of the time because they’re the ones that are open, they’re the ones that the customers tend to go to. Three to six may be 50% of the time. Six to 10 is probably only 25% of the time. Currently, it’s very, very difficult for any retailer or any customer to actually look at that, all of those devices, and go, “Okay. This is the life cycle I’ve got left.” Our system gives you that. So then you can actually, rather than go and buy all new devices, you could swap tills six to 10 with one to four and get more out of your hardware platforms.

So that’s a couple of things which we’ll be delivering in the software application, but our mission for this is to change the game, the way that service is delivered to retail sites. We’re a service company ourselves, so we’ve looked at customers’ real life data. Where we’re at currently is we know that we can solve 36%, at minimum, of what would have been engineers arriving at site with a part in their van. We all live in an environmentally friendly world now. The less we can do that, the better. We can basically reduce that number down by 36% by having a system and our software application sitting on these devices, having remote fixtures, having fixtures by AI, creating uptime. So it’s really, really powerful and, really, a start of a journey for us of where we’re going with this.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah. So obviously Intel, that’s helping you become this game changer.

James Patterson: Yeah, definitely. So, Leonard, you can obviously touch on some elements here as well, but we work very, very closely with Intel. Intel have some technology around vPro and various other things, which we’re closely sort of integrating and partnering with as well. So yeah, a huge, huge part of this development. And you…

Leonard Gilbert-Wines: Yeah. I think just to add to that, James, is the key role of that service is the investment in these devices, they need to work. So we want to maximize that uptime. Anytime a device is removed from site, which is faulty, in quotation marks, it goes on its own journey to a repair center then has miles in carbon footprint added to that. You mentioned vPro and AMT technologies. There’s a part to play with those technologies. But we do have devices that don’t qualify for those technologies. So we are writing our own custom firmware to surface that information. So it’s not as shallow as a utility on Windows. It goes up to the cloud and right down to the metal on our devices.

Dean Gratton: Is there anything else you guys want to touch upon before we conclude?

James Patterson: No. I’m trying to think if there’s anything else. No, I think we’ve covered a really broad area across the self-checkout side of things and innovation there. AI through self-service kiosks. We’re also developing certain AI cameras for vertical markets as well. The engagement around mobilizing devices and point-of-sale devices, and what we said there around changing the game, delivering smart service to our customers. I think, really, it has been a fantastic session, really, with you guys. Is there any other questions you’ve got for us at all?

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: There’s elements of what we talked about that I’d love to drill deeper with you guys into a…

Dean Gratton: Yeah, I would certainly like to drill deeper with you guys about artificial intelligence. That’s going to be whole different sections, yeah.

James Patterson: Yeah.

Dean Gratton: And open lots of one [WHAT DOES THIS MEAN???], I guess.

James Patterson: Well, we don’t discriminate and I’m certainly a big fan of wines, so be in anytime.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: We have had a fabulous time talking to you guys. It’s been so insightful and so informative. I hope the listeners have learned something from this. It’s just been wonderful.

Dean Gratton: Let’s keep in touch.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Yeah.

Dean Gratton: Until next time.

Leonard Gilbert-Wines: Absolutely. Thank you for having us. It’s been a pleasure.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: That’s it. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode.

Dean Gratton: If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, you can find out more about retail innovation at insight.tech.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: On behalf of Intel, this has been Sarah-Jayne.

Dean Gratton: And Dean Gratton. Until next time.

Sarah-Jayne Gratton: Until next time.